What do you believe "money" is?

[noseall]

Of course the government could never left it slip that tax is actually voltuntary

Which tax is that then?

 

[Mikefromlondon]

Money is the oil, and engine is the economy, when both are running smoothly everyone is happy, when the engine sump starts leaking oil, it soon dries up and the economy will come to a grinding halt, so sump being the spending on things and paying taxes and duties, and holes in the sump being savings, so when people don't save, spend all the money they earn, it goes back into circulation, everyone is happy, savers are the problem, so people who save money should be penalised with a tax, because they are the holes in the sump. Money should be fully circulating, which means people shopping, buying things, manufacturers kept busy, employing more people, no one jobless, so let us start looking at savers, why are they hording money?

Also I can eliminate poverty overnight, so for example let us take the most poorest country, and IMF injects 1 trillion dollars to that poor country, by the same token IMF can give all other countries that same amount, such that every country will benefit by 1 trillion dollars each, but a trillion dollars would go a long way for a poor country who can then utilise that fund to bring their standard of living to the same level as advanced developed nations, thus removing inequality, this would stop all migrants from leaving their country looking for better opportunities in the West, if wage levels in each country becomes equal, no one would want to migrate to another country to seek better pay. there would be no need for things like border control and Brexit, as people would much rather stay at home and work in their own country.

The whole problem our world is facing is due to inequality and obscene wage levels, take for instant in even in Britain, Lawyers are earning obscene rates of money something like £300.00 PH, that is gross and obscene, when they only pay a skilled trades person something like £25 ph, recently I withdrew a court case against a someone because of obscene charges of solicitors, I wanted to refute a bankruptcy case where I would only get back a sum of £4K, but not without extensive amount of litigation, that means my lawyer (Solicitor) told me he would charge me £250.00 PH and cost of a Barrister would be £700.00, and bearing this in mind I decided that I much rather lose my £4K than to feed rich scums. I had to withdrew my case.If I do any work for any solicitors, my rate for them would be same as theirs for me.

 

[Roger928]

when the engine sump starts leaking oil, it soon dries up and the economy will come to a grinding halt

Yes a bit like Venezuela. The socialist utopia that corbyn was always banging on about and how we should emulate its leaders.
Now its riots at dawn and the corbyn brigade have gone strangely quiet.
With corbyn reduced to calling other ministers "*******" for daring to ask awkward questions.
Socialists always run off other peoples money.

 

[Roger928]

why are they hording money?

For a rainy day. For when they are in ill health and can use that money to pay for their treatment.
For when they lose their job and can fall back on their savings instead of signing on the dole.

So that other people don't have to pay for their treatment and dish out dole money and so that the government doesn't have to sink the country and future generations borrowing billions to pay the dole bludgers and the sickly who never saved enough to pay for their own treatment.

There is something very satisfying about being able to write a cheque for £15k for a heart by pass and being fast tracked for the operation as opposed to being on a waiting list and for months moaning about how the nhs has went to the dogs.
Savers are not the problem. Its the spendthrifts you need to look at.

 

[Mikefromlondon]

A little savings is OK, but if one was hording 100K for instance, that may be more than one needs for a rainy day, end of the day if someone had contributed to the Social Security through paying by means of taxes, and NIC, so when his time comes bad, why not claim from the dole, what is therefore the purpose of having a Social Security and everyone contributing towards it, it is a form of health and job (income) guarantee insurance at a affordable price.

 

[Roger928]

You would like to think that if you pay your taxes you will be looked after. Doesn't seem to be the case anymore.
More and more people are going private for health care. People who can afford it obviously.

 

[HawkEye244]

I agree with that post.
If the powers that be decide the situation is hopeless then they will move the number to a different column, marked written off, and all will be well and nothing will change - but as for your other post, it's a job to know where to start.

The rules for money, like the law, are made by those in charge who are allowed to do it by virtue of one system or another.

If you do not abide by the rules - for money or the law - then those in charge are authorised to punish you for your behaviour.

Sometimes enough people kick up a fuss (poll tax) that the rulers change their mind and alter the rules.
You cannot stand against them alone arguing that you didn't promise to abide.

In primitive societies you may even be punished for openly disagreeing with the rules.
This may be called treason by miltary dictatorships or blasphemy by spiritual dictatorships.

In our western democracies you are allowed to say what you want about the system; the difference is, no one takes any notice.

I agree about most of that but I'm not so sure about the last part. I've personally witnessed some places on the web (the legal web not the dark web) which talk about the fradulent nature of fiat currency and those forums have been shut down, if not shut down they are constantly under attack by paid shills and disinformation agents. This is not my paranoia there are plenty of classified and unclassified documents showing that government has and does have an interest in these sorts of discussions and actively carries out intelligence information gathering and data mining operations on 'targets' and this makes sense because they are at odds with the established order.

It's funny when 'council tax' is mentioned because I've noticed people automatically come out either in defence or attack concerning it. As though to question it is to attack it, wouldn't you like to know more about how it really works though? Because I've looked into it and that's what I found. By all means though, if there's anything specific I've said that anyone is at odds with please post and I'll try and be clearer in my response.

 

[SirGalahad]

What do you mean hold such views? It's information I've picked up over the years, it's based on evidence and fact, perspective doesn't really come into it..

Also it's evident that the original poster and other's commenting in the thread are clued on on what money really is, so I'm so sure why you have a problem with my post.

Read what I posted. I agree with you.

 

[SirGalahad]

For a rainy day. For when they are in ill health and can use that money to pay for their treatment.
For when they lose their job and can fall back on their savings instead of signing on the dole.

So that other people don't have to pay for their treatment and dish out dole money and so that the government doesn't have to sink the country and future generations borrowing billions to pay the dole bludgers and the sickly who never saved enough to pay for their own treatment.

There is something very satisfying about being able to write a cheque for £15k for a heart by pass and being fast tracked for the operation as opposed to being on a waiting list and for months moaning about how the nhs has went to the dogs.
Savers are not the problem. Its the spendthrifts you need to look at.

You are so deluded it beggars belief unless you are on a wind up. Health Insurance as an efficient delivery / payment method for healthcare- that is so debunked and laughable.

 

[Roger928]

. Health Insurance as an efficient delivery / payment method for healthcare- that is so debunked and laughable.

Where did I mention health insurance in that post?
Another left wing socialist who has neither a bean nor a brain left to look after himself and depends on others.
Socialists always run out of other peoples money. Poor old socialists.

 

[Roger928]

******
fake post removed
******

 

[SirGalahad]

Where did I mention health insurance in that post?
Another left wing socialist who has neither a bean nor a brain left to look after himself and depends on others.
Socialists always run out of other peoples money. Poor old socialists.

Can you describe socialism to me. Your understanding of it.

Is it people paying taxes and then someone else deciding what to spend that money on?

 

[Gerrydelasel]

holes in the sump being savings, so when people don't save, spend all the money they earn, it goes back into circulation, everyone is happy, savers are the problem, so people who save money should be penalised with a tax, because they are the holes in the sump. Money should be fully circulating

Eventually it is fully circulating; even savings get spent eventually, it can't 'leak out' forever.
Besides, money is a proxy for bartering; it reprents wealth (stuff that has value, i.e. goods and services). Wealth is being created all the time, and therefore the amount of money in the system is also growing all the time, since it represents the amount of wealth available to be traded. If you create more money than wealth you get inflation. Savings represent wealth you have created but not traded yet. Although income inequality has increased slightly since the 1980s (but still historically low), wealth inequality in Britain is among the lowest in the world, e.g. you probably have the same TV that Richard Branson and Alan Sugar have.

The whole problem our world is facing is due to inequality and obscene wage levels, take for instant in even in Britain, Lawyers are earning obscene rates of money

No, the problem you're describing there is jelousy. It takes years to train as a lawyer (expensive) and it also requires a level of intelligence that not everyone posesses. Most trades require minimal training, at relatively low cost, with minimal intelligence needed. Trade therefore commands a lower price than lawyers. Someone who spends £40k for four years at university plus years internship to train in a high-liability subject that most people fail at, can reasonably expect that initial outlay, time and effort, to be returned later. With fewer working years remaining the salary is therefore necessarily higher than for someone who can be trained at low or no cost by the age of 18, in a low-liability subject that most people can do.

 

[empip]

According to the Bank Of England

"...Narrow money (notes and coin) balances
Our notes and coin statistics show the amount of sterling banknotes and coins in circulation outside the Bank of England, including those held in banks' and building societies' tills..." Not current / cash accounts
M0 I believe.
https://docs.google.com/viewer?doce...cs/Documents/bankstats/2017/aug/TabA1.1.1.xls
Notes and Coin (£millions)
"...2017
Jan £81,399
Mar £81,651
Apr £81,743
May£81,956
Jun £82,210
Jul £82,355..."

So there you go, around £82.355 billion in circulation.
Between £4 to £5 billion in coinage (Royal Mint) http://www.royalmint.com/discover/uk-coins/circulation-coin-mintage-figures

About £1267 for each man, woman, child, and others in the UK. Not a lot is it ?

See the 'M's here http://www.investopedia.com/terms/m/m1.asp
-0-

 

[SirGalahad]

Yes a bit like Venezuela. The socialist utopia that corbyn was always banging on about and how we should emulate its leaders.
Now its riots at dawn and the corbyn brigade have gone strangely quiet.
With corbyn reduced to calling other ministers "*******" for daring to ask awkward questions.
Socialists always run off other peoples money.

Do you even know what socialism means? Do you even know basic economics. How old are you?