What is the English law on EICR?

[ericmark]

I am told it is being made law with rented property to have an EICR in other words a house MOT. I would guess like a car MOT there will be laid down items to test and some government agency will check the testers are doing their job and licence them?

However can't find any details, as it stands I can follow the IET recommendations as to inspecting and testing, but I could also decide on what I think is reasonable. Of course if some one is killed because I miss some thing I could end up in prison. But the written form could simply say

"I Eric have tested the property 10 up the hill road and I have found no faults" I would not, I would use the IET form, but there is no law saying I must use IET or any other organisations form. And we discuss on here as to if AC or A RCD's should be used, there is no hard and fast rule.

So to be law there would need to be hard and fast rules like with a MOT which for example has a fixed amount of play on a king pin, with hard and fast rules as to what is the pass point, OK we are happy if the inspector tells us when it is near to limit, but still there are rules he must follow.

I have noted rules on who has to be given a copy and how long is allowed to produce a copy, but nothing as to who can do the testing and what are the limits.

 

[EFLImpudence]

They keep suggesting it - in England and Wales, already in force in Scotland - but, as yet there is no such regulation.

I suppose they are waiting to see how Scotland does.

I would say it is not necessary as tenants are not dropping like flies but that won't stop them.
Also, whatever they introduce will be as useless as the registration schemes and the resulting standard of administration, work and control.

Plus, if it is required for rented property then it is required for owner occupied property but who is going to introduce and enforce that?

 

[JohnD]

I am told

until an Act of Parliament is paased, we will not know what the law requires.

 

[ericmark]

I was directed to a web site suggesting it will become law in April, I would have thought with a new house the installation cert and/or compliance or completion certificate would have been enough, but did not say that.

 

[JohnD]

I was directed to a web site suggesting it will become law in April,

Can you link us to a draft? Is it a Bill that has been placed before Parliament? Or a Statutory Instrument?

Housing Ministers are notoriously idle. Just look at the number of deaths and the years that passed before they paid any attention to flammable cladding wrapped round homes.

 

[JohnD]

Ah, you mean this.

"The Electrical Safety Standards in the Private Rented Sector (England) Regulations 2020"

"Draft Legislation:

This is a draft item of legislation and has not yet been made as a UK Statutory Instrument.

Draft Regulations laid before Parliament under section 214(2) of the Housing and Planning Act 2016 and section 250(4) and (6) of the Housing Act 2004, for approval by resolution of each House of Parliament"


http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukdsi/2020/9780111191934

According to the draft, it might come into force 1st June 2020

I wonder if it's part of the Government strategy to reduce the number of private landlords.

 

[flameport]

If/when that is introduced, it will be a total waste of time and money - various places are already advertising for people to do these inspections, and typically demanding 4 or more properties per day with extra bonuses if you can do more.

It works out at around 10 minutes per circuit, not including travel time.

They will all be drive by visuals only, and entirely worthless.

 

[Mottie]

MOT which for example has a fixed amount of play on a king pin,

Blimey, I don’t think I’ve ever tested a car with king pins and I’ve been an mot tester since 1978!

 

[JohnD]

I wonder if it's part of the Government strategy to reduce the number of private landlords.

https://www.ft.com/content/4ad9a2f3...egmentId=6faa8072-922c-4fbf-5b33-45a1342b0cc3

"What does the chart show? That the number of landlords in the private rented sector has fallen to a seven-year low, with the number dropping by 223,000 over the past two years."

 

[ericmark]

Blimey, I don’t think I’ve ever tested a car with king pins and I’ve been an mot tester since 1978!

I worked on wagons, and we had at that time when MOT's first came in had a book with all the tolerances and stating exactly what was to be tested.

This like the MOT when I was working on wagons is new, so one would expect a similar book giving the limits.

I have read the electrical safety council guide lines, and I would not agree with them, I don't think anything plugged in is part of my remit, and I think when the rules changed in 1966 there has been enough time to ensure all lights have an earth cable available.

At the moment I can use my experience and judgement right or wrong, it does not matter, it is up to me, but if a EICR is law, then what ever I think, I must follow the law, it no longer matters what I think.

So to follow the law, I need to know what the law is..

 

[JohnW2]

"What does the chart show? That the number of landlords in the private rented sector has fallen to a seven-year low ...

Hmmm - I'd call that a fairly classic example of the 'abuse of data' . Given that some degree of year-to-year variation is inevitable, does that graph not show that that the number of private landlords remained essentially unchanged for the 7 years to 2019?

What may be more interesting in those graphs is that they show that, during the same period, there was an appreciable progressive increase in the number of privately rented homes. The explanation presumably must be that the 'number of homes per landlord' must have gradually increased during that period.

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

This is a draft item of legislation and has not yet been made as a UK Statutory Instrument. .... Draft Regulations laid before Parliament under section 214(2) of the Housing and Planning Act 2016 and section 250(4) and (6) of the Housing Act 2004, for approval by resolution of each House of Parliament"

Hmmm - it sounds as if I need to do some reading, since it had always been my 'understanding' (maybe a misnomer!) that one of the mains points/features of a Statutory Instrument was that it did not need to be 'laid before' either House of Parliament. Is that incorrect?

Kind Regards, John

 

[ericmark]

I asked at work today, seems already law in Wales, as to what needs testing it seems one is expected to use the IET forms and follow what is asked for on the forms, as the guy I was talking to said however is there is nothing laid down as to with each circuit if 10% tested and if any fault found 30% tested and if any further faults found 70% tested etc. That is the normal way it is done, but nothing laid down.

I asked about items like RCD being type A or AC and he seems uncertain as to if that needs even checking, so in real terms there is not hard and fast rules, so if I was to rent out my house the main tests seems to be Ze which one can get from enquiry, so in real terms the law has not really changed, we have always been required to keep the home safe, we can find many court cases where it was not done and some one has be punished as a result, so all the new law says is the results must be written down after an inspection, and very little else.

 

[JohnW2]

I asked at work today, seems already law in Wales ....

I'm not so sure about that. Two or three weeks ago, with reference to the upcoming legislation for England, NAPIT wrote''

... Subject to due parliamentary process, these regulations will come into force [in England] for new tenancies from 1st July 2020, and for any existing tenancies from 1st April 2021 .... NAPIT remains committed to improving electrical safety standards. We are currently in the process of adapting our website to make it easy for Landlords to find people competent to undertake electrical inspection and testing. .... Our focus will also remain on pushing for mandatory electrical safety checks in the PRS to be introduced in Wales.

... as to what needs testing it seems one is expected to use the IET forms and follow what is asked for on the forms, as the guy I was talking to said however is there is nothing laid down as to ....

As above, it seems that that is not yet relevant to Wales, but it certainly seems to be true that the upcoming ('proposed') legislation for England includes absolutely no detail as to the nature/extent of the 'inspection' that will be required, or who may do it, concentrating mainly on the frequency of the inspections and the undertaking of any remedial work which may be required as a result of the inspections.

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

..... "This is a draft item of legislation and has not yet been made as a UK Statutory Instrument.
Draft Regulations laid before Parliament under section 214(2) of the Housing and Planning Act 2016 and section 250(4) and (6) of the Housing Act 2004, for approval by resolution of each House of Parliament" .... "

. That "for approval by" seems to have been overtaken, a couple of lines lower in the document, by...

............. In accordance with section 214(2) of the Housing and Planning Act 2016 and section 250(4) and (6) of the Housing Act 2004, a draft of this instrument was laid before Parliament and approved by a resolution of each House of Parliament.

I wonder what has to happen to an SI which has been "laid before Parliament and approved by a resolution of each House of Parliament" before it becomes "made". I don't think that an SI requires Royal Assent, does it?

Kind Regards, John