what is wrong with my heating system (air)

[Onetap]

if its sucking air in through the open vent then its suggests a pipework or flow problem.

It isn't. The Aerejc stops that.

 

[oilboffin]

Fit airiject vertical flow from left vent on top and feed to the right or pump on right then before it 15mill feed and before that22mill vent making sure that vent and feed are not more than 150mill apart for goodness sake it is not rocket science or a black art it's common sence

 

[helptavner]

i already have the arejec fitted as per photo, just it hasnt made any improvement, i was just wondering if since having the new boiler it could cause a problem with air?

its been checked for pumping over
its had the arejec and made no difference

thanks

 

[helptavner]

Yes, if they did the soldering with active flux and didn't flush the residues out of the heating system, it could generate hydrogen; check whether the 'air' is hydrogen, as above.

Any automatic air vents on the system? Search Google images for a picture if you don't know what they look like.

What is the boiler?

thanks for your post!
ive had it flushed twice (once when we moved in when the boiler was fitted MAIN HE) the plumber said it was flushed with fernox
and i paid for the earjec to be fitted i had it cleaned (FLUSHED) with fernox inserted at the time.

No we dont have any automatic air vents (none on the rads and none on the pipe work the plumber who fitted the boiler did suggest these but hes gone quiet.
were are you proposing these should be fitted

thanks for help

 

[Onetap]

ive had it flushed twice (once when we moved in when the boiler was fitted MAIN HE) the plumber said it was flushed with fernox
and i paid for the earjec to be fitted i had it cleaned (FLUSHED) with fernox inserted at the time.

One of the causes of air-locking is hydrogen, produced by electrolysis of the water. This will usually only happen if the water is acidic, the usual cause of that is flux residues.

However, if the system has been power flushed, they'd usually use a chemical cleaner which has an acid in it. The acid has to be flushed out and neutralized after flushing the system. That stage is sometimes neglected, because it takes time and uses chemicals. If that hasn't been done, then that will cause corrosion of the radiators and produce hydrogen.

So, as above, check whether the 'air' is hydrogen to eliminate that possibility.

If it isn't that, then I'd suspect the air is being brought in dissolved in fresh water, which would be due to a leak from, or into, the heating system.

To check for leaks, you'd need to get access to the heating feed and expansion (F&E) tank in the loft. There are usually 2 tanks, a big 50 gallon cold water storage tank and a small 4 gallon heating F&E tank.

Please advise us whether you, or a helper, can get to these to take photos and someone will then tell you what to do to check for leaks.

No we dont have any automatic air vents (none on the rads and none on the pipe work the plumber who fitted the boiler did suggest these but hes gone quiet.

No, they should not be necessary. You need to find out how the air is getting into the system and sort that out, rather than fit AAVs to remove the air.

I asked about AAVs because they will let air in, it there is a negative pressure in the system. You don't have any.

Making changes to the Aerjec, or combining the feed and open vent pipes will not achieve anything.

 

[helptavner]

thanks for your reply, its not had a power flush, when bg called out orginally when we moved in they did say that this issue could have been caused when the house was new (15 years ago)

ive been up in the roof and coudlnt find any leaks, i understand what does what - were do i look for leaks ??

thanks

 

[Onetap]

ive been up in the roof and coudlnt find any leaks, i understand what does what - were do i look for leaks ??

Not leaks in the roof space, but leaks from the heating system, typically under the ground floor or inside the hot water cylinder, where they won't be noticed. This would cause fresh water to enter the heating system.

The fresh water has dissolved air in it. Any dissolved oxygen corrodes the insides of the steel radiators, the dissolved nitrogen comes out of solution when the water is heated in the boiler and causes airlocking.

Check whether thje 'air' is hydrogen, as above.

Post photos of the two (?) tanks, showing the water level, cold feed connection and open vent pipe in the small F&E tank with the lid off.

 

[helptavner]

THANKS WILL REPORT BACK

 

[helptavner]

just been reading, and someone posted in another thread that the boiler could be boiling, well i think ours does after 15 mins, you do hear sometimes kettling noise? just a thought (boiler stat need lowering)

b/g calling out tomorrow as it due a service will let you know what they say.

cant be much else?

 

[Onetap]

b/g calling out tomorrow as it due a service will let you know what they say.

Most likely to be a waste of breath, in my experience.

cant be much else?

You'll know when you've found it, but I'd hope not.

 

[helptavner]

b/g calling out tomorrow as it due a service will let you know what they say.

Most likely to be a waste of breath, in my experience.

cant be much else?

You'll know when you've found it, but I'd hope not.

hi onetap and i appreciate your help!!

bg called out today you were right they were useless lol, (really nice guy but i think i knew more about the issue (as im the one living with it) than what he knew about it

do you think i could just put a auto bleed valve on the rad that is causing the most issues (the one in the onsuie it only a bit of the issue) but its the one directly above the boiler (these get good revews, i know its not solving the problem ????

he mentioned what we have already spoken about sealed system/powerflush etc etc but he said your probably wasting your money (which was honest of him)

he checked the afending rads and 99% sure it was air (as i already thought) he said with the amount of air that came out of it and with the smell 0 that much hydrogen would have corroded the rad though by now.

obviously there is the option of having a combi in the future (Which will free up space in our little ones bedroom) but seems a shame to dump all we have (with newish boiler)

thanks

 

[Onetap]

do you think i could just put a auto bleed valve on the rad that is causing the most issues (the one in the onsuie it only a bit of the issue) but its the one directly above the boiler (these get good revews, i know its not solving the problem ????

he mentioned what we have already spoken about sealed system/powerflush etc etc but he said your probably wasting your money (which was honest of him)

It's probably a leak.

You really need to find it and fix it, it will be corroding all your radiators, the sludge (corrosion products) will block the waterways through the rads and the pipes and it will cause hotspots in the boiler heat exchanger, causing it to perforate. When you have to replace the boiler, you will not be able to get all the sludge out of the system, even with power flushing; a new boiler will fail prematurely, for the same reason.

An AAV will just disguise the problem. A sealed system will need manual topping up, probably every day.

The BG man didn't understand the corrosion process.

Check whether it's hydrogen.

 

[helptavner]

do you think i could just put a auto bleed valve on the rad that is causing the most issues (the one in the onsuie it only a bit of the issue) but its the one directly above the boiler (these get good revews, i know its not solving the problem ????

he mentioned what we have already spoken about sealed system/powerflush etc etc but he said your probably wasting your money (which was honest of him)

It's probably a leak.

You really need to find it and fix it, it will be corroding all your radiators, the sludge (corrosion products) will block the waterways through the rads and the pipes and it will cause hotspots in the boiler heat exchanger, causing it to perforate. When you have to replace the boiler, you will not be able to get all the sludge out of the system, even with power flushing; a new boiler will fail prematurely, for the same reason.

An AAV will just disguise the problem. A sealed system will need manual topping up, probably every day.

The BG man didn't understand the corrosion process.

Check whether it's hydrogen.

thanks for your comments, i to hoped / thought it would be leak
bs man didnt think that a leak would cause this issue (he thought that a leak would cause just a leak)

in the last 3 yrs ive checked checked and double checked - i have OCD so things like this arent good for my health,