What to make herringbone strutting between joists from

[^woody^]

The TRADA 2005 document on floor strutting discusses the three methods and goes on to mention situations when one may be preferable to another.

Just two examples - solid noggins may not be useful where high shrinkage may occur (damp timber) and herringbone struts are no good for wider spacings

It notes that there is little difference in performance of each method

It also states that strutting increases load sharing and stability, and contributes to sound reduction as it reduces vibration

 

[tim00]

I prefaced my post with a For What It's Worth ( FWIW ), i didn't make any claim for the information except that it's an interesting, different view of the subject. At no stage did i say that i relied on the studies, nor did i encourage others to rely on them, I merely presented them.

It's a bit confusing that you attack the bearers of a the view, including "yank ... magazine". I dont think the editor of the Sunday Sun took part in the cup final, but it was most surely and emphatically reported in his newspaper. Then again, perhaps i wasn't very attentive while watching the match.

That you compare me to Our Saviour is flattering, but overall i dont think it's an altogether accurate simile.

Thank you for the TRADA quotes: again a careful reading of what i actually said would reveal that I specifically included subflooring in the mix.

I'm sorry that you appear to feel challenged by another view, explicitly a "yank" point of view - quite how the "yank" angle affects the accuracy or inaccuracy of a viewpoint escapes me.

 

[^woody^]

I'm sorry that you appear to feel challenged by another view,

I don't feel challenged, you need to lighten up a bit, FFS

 

[theoldun]

The best option is whatever is available at the cheapest or no cost - ie off-cuts

Edit:

Whatever you choose, just remember to put the strutting in as soon as the joists are fitted, not weeks later

As the above complies with both BRs and NHBC if applicable then end of story
Regards oldun

 

[RonnyRaygun]

The best option is whatever is available at the cheapest or no cost - ie off-cuts

Edit:

Whatever you choose, just remember to put the strutting in as soon as the joists are fitted, not weeks later

As the above complies with both BRs and NHBC if applicable then end of story
Regards oldun

Sorry Oldun, but after all we've been through on this thread...just want to point something out here...

It would seem to me that it would be best to get herringbone strutting in as soon as the joists are laid, as shrinkage will tighten them up...

But...with solid blocking, shrinkage of the joists will loosen the blocking, so better to insert blocking once shrinkage of the joists (and preferably blocking too) has taken place.

Agree?

 

[tim00]

RonnieRaygun,
I agree, and might mention a sometimes practice of carpenters in the USA.

They will often fix the high side only of herring-bone strutting leaving the other side free until just before boarding over the ceilings, or the house is dried-in. That way the floor can take whatever loads are available, settle somewhat, and then the extended herring-bone can be be pinned in a position less likely to squeak, and the joistings should be semi-dry.

It's also less likely that other trades will smash the strutting out of their way.

Another technique, which i've seen here and over there, is for a nailer ( 2 x 1 ) dropped across the tops of the joists ( esp. engineered joists ), and pinned to each centred edge -
similar to a temporary brace in roof trusses. It will provide, of course, accuracy and safety.

 

[jeds]

I agree timber struts are only useful in compression. So really only one strut (or tie) is doing any work at any one time. I was referring to metal ones, which I also agree are technically ties, not struts. Metal ones are only any good in tension. You do have to order to length but if there are a couple of joists a bit closer together (which is inevitable really) you can just wrap the tie over and nail or screw through.

 

[theoldun]

Ronnie, You are one of the few armchair bricklayers whose post we will reply to.
We stopped using solid joists 6 years ago. We now use eco or easi joists, occasionally TJIs.
Going back to solids. We normally used to herring bone, (all as our first post). when joists were pitched. The way we were taught many years ago we can cut and fix herring bone as quick as solid bridging. That’s another story.
Whilst you have a valid point in what you say there is a flip side to the coin.
If you are dealing with a decent timber company, you should be buying in joists with 18to22% moisture content. Even though you crown them and sheet them the moment they arrive, you never know what sort of walk about they are going to take once pitched, therefore to avoid this we bridge them solid with timber or bones as soon as pitched to avoid them going down a one way street.
Yes, you may have shrinkage but moisture content will not go down to say 8to10% until unit is finished and some heat on
QUOTE RON But…solid blocking, shrinkage of the joists will loosen the blocking, so better to insert blocking once shrinkage of the joists (and preferably blocking too) has taken place.
That would be nice in a perfect world Ron, but at what stage do you think joists stop shrinking when there are possibly no windows or doors in the unit, no heat, and wet trades to follow.? There will be no shrinkage in the length of blockings, minimal shrinkage in the width of joists, the main shrinkage is in depth. So how long do you hang yourself on a coat hanger in the airing cupboard waiting for the joists to stop shrinking? Think about it Ron.

QUOTE TIM00 agree, and might mention a sometimes practice of carpenters in the USA.
Pleased to see you mentioned a SOMETIMES practice in Disney land. Good to know that the rest of them know what they are about

QUOTE TIM 00 .Another technique, which i've seen here and over there, is for a nailer ( 2 x 1 ) dropped across the tops of the joists ( esp. engineered joists ),
That’s a sign of a decent chippie to lay a centre brace. It is also mandatory with TJIs in the UK to comply with H&S, although to be honest we do not bother these days as we floor out the joists at the same time as pitching to avoid a lot of overhand blockwork.
Regards oldun

 

[^woody^]

What a privilege

 

[RonnyRaygun]

Ronnie, You are one of the few armchair bricklayers whose post we will reply to.

Always like to sit in an armchair while bricklaying else I find my back's killing me by the end of the day

QUOTE RON But…solid blocking, shrinkage of the joists will loosen the blocking, so better to insert blocking once shrinkage of the joists (and preferably blocking too) has taken place.
That would be nice in a perfect world Ron, but at what stage do you think joists stop shrinking when there are possibly no windows or doors in the unit, no heat, and wet trades to follow.? There will be no shrinkage in the length of blockings, minimal shrinkage in the width of joists, the main shrinkage is in depth. So how long do you hang yourself on a coat hanger in the airing cupboard waiting for the joists to stop shrinking? Think about it Ron.

No, completely agree, wouldn't be practical to wait until the carpets are down before putting in the noggins

What a privilege

Well...as we live in a monarchy I'll settle for deposing Cameron