when is a porch not a porch?

[jeds]

On the PP (under Planning), it doesn't mention anything about a W.C. so they consider porches to be exempt if...

1. the ground floor area (measured externally) would not exceed three square metres.
2. no part would be more than three metres above ground level (height needs to be measured in the same way as for a house extension).
3. no part of the porch would be within two metres of any boundary of the dwellinghouse and the highway.

So I'd take that as a porch containing a W.C. would be deemed as PD. I'd personally seek confirmation via the LA too... just incase.

I agree with that entirely. The fact is the WC is irrelevant. Build the porch within PD limits. What you then do inside is not a planning matter.

 

[spongobongo]

This is from one local authority site http://www.corby.gov.uk/EnvironmentAndPlanning/BuildingControl/Pages/ExemptWorks.aspx Reproduced below by copy/paste Whilst this is there Building Control Department, I seriously doubt they would consider a different definition for the Planning dept.

Well there's your first mistake. Building control and planning are very different beasts. What is acceptable under one regime won't neccessarily past muster under the other.

Let's put it this way: if I wanted to put a toilet in the middle of my new PD kitchen extension at the back of the house (I might fancy taking a dump while watching the missus bake a cake), I could do so without any planning intervention whatsover. However, Building Control wouldn't sign it off in a month of Sundays.

By definition a porch is a space which covers either a front or back door.

Or a side door.

If the space contains anything else,(e.g. a WC), it cannot be exempt.

Under the Building Regs, yes, but not planning.

What if you have a bookshelf in there? Does that make it a library rather than a porch? Of course not. It's irrelevant.

If the original front/rear door is removed, then the new space is considered an extension and cannot be exempt.

Under the building regs, yes. Under planning law, it's not development and therefore doesn't require permission.

To be exempt porches must also be built at ground level and have a floor area of less than 30m²

Well, it'd be an odd porch at first floor level wouldn't it? And a porch measuring 30m2 would be ten times bigger than the PD rights allow.

 

[Thermo]

spoken to planning and they are happy that as long as it meets the external requirements it will be permitted development and they are quite happy that it can be partitioned off to form a small cloakroom with a w.c.

Just waiting to see what building control have to say

 

[Thermo]

building regs say it will need regs under a building notice as they would class it as a small extension

 

[Blagard]

Thermo - Good news for you then

Remove the existing inner front door to complete the transition from porch to extension. Will you be asking planning for a certificate ? (Just thinking about those blessed Homepacks)

It then begs the question can, you build a porch in front of your extension?
I don't really expect an answer to this but I'm pretty sure spongobongo will be unable to resist

A really interesting thread all around, and one which demonstrates just how badly some government documents are drafted and the need to define the meaning of some words so they are clear in the context of the document.

 

[noseall]

The thing to clarify here is the terminology involved.

The structure will be a building as far as planning are concerned, what you call it is irrelevant to planning.

But as soon as Thermo puts a toilet in there it goes from being called a porch to being called an extension as far as building control are concerned.

 

[DevilDamo]

So he'll need planning regulations and not building?

Jokes

 

[Thermo]

The thing to clarify here is the terminology involved.

The structure will be a building as far as planning are concerned, what you call it is irrelevant to planning.

But as soon as Thermo puts a toilet in there it goes from being called a porch to being called an extension as far as building control are concerned.

spot on. Planning said as long as it fits the size criteria its a porch and exempt. they are not concerned with whats done inside, only the outward appearance of the building.

The chap at building control said they will treat it as a small extension, since even though it may comply with there exemptions for a porch, it goes beyond that, as for a start the cloakroom will be heated and so there will be no thermal break between it and the house. He also said that 99% of people will take out the external door and so they would treat it as a a small extension from the start

so thats another job to add to the list!

 

[schulbert]

Here's a question. Can you add a porch without an external door? Say you have a kitchen with an external door and you add a porch against that door - can that porch have no external door? My thinking is that this would provide a tiny utility room with more space if no external door was needed.

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

Always better to start a new thread, anyway, why are you not considering it as an extension rather than a porch with no access to the outside?

 

[schulbert]

Always better to start a new thread, anyway, why are you not considering it as an extension rather than a porch with no access to the outside?

The reason why is that no planning permission is needed for a porch - it could be done under p.d.

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

And so can some extensions so please answer the question.

 

[schulbert]

The reason why is that no planning permission is needed for a porch - it could be done under p.d.

And so can some extensions so please answer the question.

Apologies - I didn't give much information did I. My bungalow is a corner plot with highways at the front and side, and from my reading an extension would need planning permission but a porch, so long as it is no nearer than 2m to the highway, would not. It might well be that an extension would be granted anyway - it is on a housig estate - but if it was not granted......

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

Why would it not be defined as an extension? BTW only one elevation can be considered as facing the highway.

 

[schulbert]

Thanks a lot for your advice