Which Combi to install?

[avoidingthebotch]

hi folks... i was running a 24Kw Vokera on the existing piping without any real issue until it crumbled early... does that suggest that the boiler company may be making up the 15mm piping issue? And is there a way i can check ie is it as simple as checking 15mm diameter with a ruler?

Also on liters per minute... is it as simple as collecting what can come out of the system in a minute (any particular taps/showers?)

thanks for not being driven by the same self-interest which seems to be such a strong motivation for HomeCall and their contractors!


d

 

[avoidingthebotch]

as per the supposed upgrade to 28mm and 22mm, WITHOUT the boiler they would charge:
OPTION 1
1. To remove existing boiler.
2. To install customers 39kw Avanta Boiler (the gas supply will have to be upgraded for the new boiler).
3. To supply and install 3 x thermostatic radiator valves.
4. To supply and install 1 x limebeater to alleviate the build up of limescale to boiler.
5. To supply and install 1 x magnaclean (see www.magnaclean.co.uk) or equivalent.
6. To supply and run new gas supply to accommodate new boiler.
7. To register installation with Gas Safe.
COST: £995 + VAT

And WITH the following boilers, they quote..
OPTION 2
As above, except on this option to install the following boilers onto the existing gas supply:
1. Gloworm Betacom 24HE @ £1400 + VAT.
2. Baxi Duo-Tec 24HE @ £1700 + VAT.

On installation, we will check the gas pressure. If the gas reading is insufficient, we will have to increase the gas supply at a cost of £425 + VAT.

POWER FLUSH
We contract on outside company to power flush the system at a cost of £350

Does this sound expensive? (does to me!) Thanks

 

[kevindgas]

the boiler price sounds too cheap to me, we wouldn't change a boiler let alone give you all the extras for that money!

but saying that we would quote you for the whole job not bits

as a guide a fully fitted vaillant 831 31kw combi would cost you £1,995 inclusive from us, even if gas pipe was needing upgrading

 

[doitall]

I think the price is about right when you add on the boiler etc. As Kevin said just under £2k inclusive.

The gas will need to be increased from 15mm whatever boiler you have, unless it's sitting on the meter. Perhaps you could post a few details, total length of the pipe, number of bends and any other appliances, and we can roughly size it.

 

[avoidingthebotch]

thanks - I think the difference in quotes might be because your Vaillant is a better boiler than those quoted? Would your Vaillant need 22mm gas piping? ta D

 

[doitall]

Just because it costs more don't make it better, and Vaillant service is one of the worse in the market.

We need information to answer the gas pipe size.

 

[kevindgas]

Just because it costs more don't make it better, and Vaillant service is one of the worse in the market.

.

only ever had to call them out twice in 4 years on both occasions engineers were polite, helpful and most of all on time!

the reason we stick with them is that our local rep is really good and the products are on the whole reliable.

 

[avoidingthebotch]

thanks... sorry, i wouldn't have any idea... if the pipe is the one which comes from the metre box outside, it has to go from there upstairsin an N shape around 10m to the boiler... but it is more than 15mm diameter (if that is what 1.5mm means) - does any of that make sense?

 

[wrightstuff1]

I had never even heard of them till two years ago when I worked for a company that did some of their in warranty repairs. After going out to a few I found that all the ones I had been called out too were mostly installer error. I have fitted about 6, and in my opinion are a worcester / vaillant quality...for ideal, potterton, glowworm money, and much better customer service if you do need to deal with them. Also who else offers a 5 year warranty for this price range. ( and no I don't work for them )



And yes you will need a bigger gas supply pipe if you only have a 15mm.


Just my opinion

 

[avoidingthebotch]

thanks Wrightstuff.. sorry, who is 'they' you are recommending? thanks D

 

[bengasman]

OPTION 1
1. To remove existing boiler.
2. To install customers 39kw Avanta Boiler (the gas supply will have to be upgraded for the new boiler).
3. To supply and install 3 x thermostatic radiator valves.
4. To supply and install 1 x limebeater to alleviate the build up of limescale to boiler.
5. To supply and install 1 x magnaclean (see www.magnaclean.co.uk) or equivalent.
6. To supply and run new gas supply to accommodate new boiler.
7. To register installation with Gas Safe.
COST: £995 + VAT

On installation, we will check the gas pressure. If the gas reading is insufficient, we will have to increase the gas supply at a cost of £425 + VAT.

That is a way of luring you in for a boiler swap for a grand; not a snowflake's chance in hell the current 15 mm will suffice, so that makes in £1420

POWER FLUSH
We contract on outside company to power flush the system at a cost of £350

Quite likely that your system is rather gunked up, and without a proper clean, your new boiler would not last as long, so now we are at £1770.
Add the vat and you end up at £2035. Plus the cost of the boiler makes it a about £3000. Their quote including boiler would come out slightly lower than that, but you would have either a cheap piece of junk (betacom) or a mediocre boiler. Might as well spend a couple of hundred more and get a good boiler for £3000 in stead of mediocre for £2800.
You should get a Worcester Bosch CDI or a Viessman complete with Siemens programmable roomstat for that sort of money, not El Cheapo boilers.
Together with their absurd £700 repair quote, I would say: thank them for their time and send them packing.

 

[avoidingthebotch]

thanks a lot... I think I will... I had another plumber come and look who made it make more sense for me...

I think I need:
A power flush of 7 radiators and in-between pipework
A Magna Clean or similar
A flue and pressure relief valve taken up to the roof, and brickwork on outside made good
A small amount of pipework (less than 1m) altering from 15mm to 22mm into boiler
A good quality 24kw or 25kw boiler, built to last, with 5 year guarantee if possible (Worcester-Bosch, Vaillant, Viessman, Atmos, Broag Remeha etc)
4 RTVs on 4 of the rads (3 have them already)
A central thermostat

Any ideas on what all that should cost, [if it is easier, minus the boiler (cos I guess that depends on the quality)]...

 

[doitall]

I would still go for the Avanta 28c as a minimum.

Price around here £2-2.5k all in.

 

[bengasman]

I think I need:
A power flush of 7 radiators and in-between pipework

The whole system needs cleaning.


A Magna Clean or similar

Wouldn't hurt


A flue and pressure relief valve taken up to the roof, and brickwork on outside made good

prv can not go up

A small amount of pipework (less than 1m) altering from 15mm to 22mm into boiler

I doubt that will suffice.


A good quality 24kw or 25kw boiler, built to last, with 5 year guarantee if possible (Worcester-Bosch, Vaillant, Viessman, Atmos, Broag Remeha etc)

Viessmann is probably best value for money, but go with what your installer advices for your installation.


4 RTVs on 4 of the rads (3 have them already)

Replace all valves that look less than 100%


A central thermostat

Get a good quality programmable stat like Honeywell cm 927 or Siemens rev 42

Any ideas on what all that should cost, [if it is easier, minus the boiler (cos I guess that depends on the quality)]...

How long is a piece of string? It all depends on the particular circumstances. Vertical flue through the roof is hundreds of pounds more normally. I have done boilerswaps that cost more than I charged for an entirely new installation based on the same boiler.

You are best off when you choose the best boiler for your situation; the installation costs are the main factor, and the price difference between a top quality and a mediocre boiler are only £200 - £300, in other words: about 10%. No brainer.

For a combi, you should always go a bit bigger than you need so you have the possibility or running 2 showers of it if the need ever arises. Price difference between a 27 CDI and a 37 CDI (my own preferred model) is about £250.

Like I said before, it is impossible to tell without seeing the current situation, but around £2500 should get you a top notch job.
The real question is: how do you find somebody that will do the job as it should be done?

 

[doitall]

To answer the last part Ben, Visit the manufacturers website for an approved installer, should get you someone reasonable, at best someone that knows the product.