Which double socket to buy

[JohnW2]

Sorry but my opinion is very different to yours and it's included in all of my rental agreements. ... This particular example was very lucky: https://www.diynot.com/diy/threads/shower-isolator.595585/ that the water went down the drain and the bill was under £2K

One thing about that would concern me a bit (or, at least, make me wonder how 'consistent' you are!). If you feel the need to impose 'requirements/obligations' on your tenants in relation to possible events as extremely rare as the anecdote you mention, I wonder how long is the list of other requirements/obligations (some of which might be pretty impractical/inconvenient) you also impose, in relation to countless other similarly extremely rare possible events?

In terms of the anecdote, I imagine that there are some swings and roundabouts. Shower isolator switches (or the connections to them) seem fairly notorious for overheating - so the mere presence of an isolator represents some (albeit very small) fire hazard, and I imagine that that risk probably increases if the isolator is operated every day, rather than once in a blue moon for maintenance.

Again, as for that specific, and 'in passing', I have water-flow sensors in my house, which result in an alarm if there is a continuous flow of water into the house for more than a set period (about 18 mins if I recall - short enough to sometimes be triggered by the youngsters' showers . Admittedly that is only of major use when the house is occupied (although the alarm is probably loud enough for the neighbours to hear) - but I suppose that, in this day and age (of the 'new-fangled'!) , I could arrange for the alarm to send a message to my mobile phone (or even my landlord's phone if it were rented property!)

Kind Regards, John

 

[ebee]

I have never thought about water flow sensors, until now that is!

 

[ebee]

Shower isolator switches (or the connections to them) seem fairly notorious for overheating - so the mere presence of an isolator represents some (albeit very small) fire hazard

Yes I do think that has a little to do with it.
How many have noticed any predominance as to whether just an N or just an L or pretty much both? Purely from your own experience rather than what others might have said.

 

[SUNRAY]

One thing about that would concern me a bit (or, at least, make me wonder how 'consistent' you are!). If you feel the need to impose 'requirements/obligations' on your tenants in relation to possible events as extremely rare as the anecdote you mention, I wonder how long is the list of other requirements/obligations (some of which might be pretty impractical/inconvenient) you also impose, in relation to countless other similarly extremely rare possible events?
...

Kind Regards, John

There are some, all the standard thing which usually appear in rental agreements and insurance documents; like closing & locking doors and windows, turning off appliances, turning off the cooker and shower switch, when out, not covering heaters etc. All the common sense stuff.

 

[JohnW2]

Yes I do think that has a little to do with it.

If we're talking about 'very small risks',I think it has to - I've certainly heard of many cases of 'overheating' of shower isolators, and at least one case I can recall of a resultant (small) 'fire' (which obviously might have turned into a bigger file). The question therefore is whether that very small risk is smaller or larger than the very small risk that can result from not having a shower isolated (per SUNRAY's anecdote). I have no idea of the answer.

How many have noticed any predominance as to whether just an N or just an L or pretty much both? Purely from your own experience rather than what others might have said.

I cannot answer that question as posed. I have only one electric shower, which is a hardly-ever-used backup (hence nearly always 'isolated'), but it does not have a 'shower isolator' as such. The shower is powered by a re-purposed unused cooker circuit (10mm² - don't ask me!), so the 'isolator' for the shower is a Cooker Control Unit in an adjacent room! I therefore have no personal experience of the sort of 'shower isolators'we are talking about.

However, presumably like you, the reports I'm heard from others seem to suggest that (for whatever reason) a loose N connection is the most common cause of overheating of these things.

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

I have never thought about water flow sensors, until now that is!

As you say, you have now

If I have some spare moments, I'll post the schematic of the electronics associated with the sensors, since it might amuse you (or others) to see how I did things some 35 years ago

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

Why not arrange the alarm to cut the water supply until you reset it.

I could have done that, but to avoid inconvenience, I would then probably have had to to extend the 'delay time' to appreciably more than the current (I think about 18 mins), since I wouldn't want our water supply being switched off as a result of my daughters' protracted showers! If I did that, it would appreciably increase the amount of damage to the house that could be done if the continuing flow were, for example, the result of a burst pipe or overflowing bath.

 

[JohnW2]

There are some, all the standard thing which usually appear in rental agreements and insurance documents; like closing & locking doors and windows, turning off appliances, turning off the cooker and shower switch, when out, not covering heaters etc. All the common sense stuff.

That's all fairly reasonable )and, as you say, fairly standard) stuff (although, as has been said, switch off a cooker's clock ever day is a bit of a pain).

I was talking about far more esoteric things than that, with a risk of harm to the property being of a comparable order to that of the anecdotal event you mentioned. Do you, for example, allow people to charge lithium batteries in the property, or to leave SMPSU wallwarts or similar (e.g. for routers, alarms etc.) to remain powered when the tenants are not in the property? What about turning off the water supply when they are 'out'?

Kind Regards, John

 

[SUNRAY]

So your tenants have to reset the clock on the cooker every time they return from going out!

Taking significant interest in your frequent statements about saving money, I don't waste it either.

 

[SUNRAY]

That's all fairly reasonable )and, as you say, fairly standard) stuff (although, as has been said, switch off a cooker's clock ever day is a bit of a pain).

I was talking about far more esoteric things than that, with a risk of harm to the property being of a comparable order to that of the anecdotal event you mentioned. Do you, for example, allow people to charge lithium batteries in the property, or to leave SMPSU wallwarts or similar (e.g. for routers, alarms etc.) to remain powered when the tenants are not in the property? What about turning off the water supply when they are 'out'?

Kind Regards, John

I'd have to look at an agreement to get any details, certainly there are requirements to switch off water and gas if vacant for a specified time and clauses that electrical equipment must be in good condition.
I don't supply cooking equipment including clocks only C. heating. and those are battery backed.

 

[JohnW2]

I'd have to look at an agreement to get any details, certainly there are requirements to switch off water and gas if vacant for a specified time and clauses that electrical equipment must be in good condition.

That's all very standard. I must say that I'm always been sceptical about the requirements to, say, 'turn off the water and gas "if the property is going to be unoccupied for a specific time", since that 'specific time" is often quite long -anything from a few days up to 30 or so, whereas sever damage can occur to a property during just a few hours of inoccupancy - and, indeed, in the case of 'taps or gas appliances left on', any consequential damage to the property is perhaps most likely during that first few hours of inoccupancy. are probably most likely during

Mind you, yet again there are swings and roundabouts. Switching off water and gas during a long period of inoccupancy will usually mean no heating, or water heating during that long period of inoccupancy - which itself could have consequences.

However, as I said, I was talking about fair less standard restrictions imposed on clients that the ones you are now mentioning.

Kind Regards, John