Which LED bulbs actually last as long as they're supposed to?

The trouble is that the led's in the bulbs we can buy are run at their limit, and beyond in some cases, so will never last as long as they could do.
If you really want long lasting led's then get some Philips Dubai lamps but you may have to go to Dubai to get them :) For a detailed explanation see here

 
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Personally I've found 'domestic' LEDs to be very unreliable, in the last 5 years since I've started fitting them, I've purchased more replacements for them than incandescants in the previous 20 years... by a big margin. However I stick with them as I'm quite liking how they look in some fittings, especially the little garden bollards.

I've had 3/6 fail in 5 years, this may not seem like a lot, but 15000 hours is almost two years of solid use, and we don't leave lights on when not in the rooms. Philips themselves explain that it doesn't matter how many times you switch them off and on:
https://www.lighting.philips.co.uk/...-if-the-leds-are-frequently-turned-on-and-off
So something not right.
 
If you really want long lasting led's then get some Philips Dubai lamps but you may have to go to Dubai to get them :) For a detailed explanation see here

Interesting. I've broken down one of the failing Philips and it has twice as many components, and mounts all the LEDS right next to each other on a large heatsink which isn't necessary with the Dubai lamp. I had no idea it was so simple to make a CC generator, makes me wonder why they don't use the same circuit in other lights (patented?). With just a FET, a transistor and a couple of zeners I'd expect it to cope with higher temperatures as well, unlike the ASIC in my Philips.
 
As we get more and more LED lights we are also reducing the number of tungsten which may have damped out surges?

The inrush current of a 1 Watt LED golf ball is surprisingly high and may have been the cause of problems with the village Christmas lights.
LED golfball circuit.jpg


They are festoons of between 100 and 200 lamps
The normal running current per 1 Watt lamp is 4.4mA
So a festoon of 200 lamps running normally is approximately 0.9 Amps
So we were surprised to find 6 Amp and 10 Amp fuses were blowing on two of the festoons

After some further investigation and modifications to the power supply boxes we have found that a fault in the festoon cable and/or lamp holders is the most probable cause of the fuses blowing. Out of 8 festoons only two of them are blowing fuses.

That said the inrush current is significant, both in current and duration. These are extracts from e-mails with the manufacturer

After a conversation with our engineering team, please note that our **** lamps have a 33mA of inrush current.
For a 200 lamps festoon, you will need a minimum of 7 Amp fuse.

Please note that the inrush current in the LED lamps can go up to 10 times of the standard current value.

Thank you for coming back to us.
The inrush current lasts for about 10ms, but it takes between 40--50 cycles for the current to stabilize to the normal operating value.

 
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The next was Lidi, around 2017-8 they started to sell E14 candle bulbs at around 1.6 watt, there were only a couple left sold in pairs, so I bought a couple, and on getting home realised more of the Philips 8W golf bulbs had failed, so decided to use the new bulbs until I could pick up some larger bulbs. I was surprised how much light from such a small bulb.

I picked up an entire batch of 2.5 or 3.5w BC lamps golf ball sized and cheap when a large, national chain store was closing years ago. I have no idea of the make, but paid around 50p each for them. They dimmed perfectly, via a basic old dimmer. I used them in many pendant light locations, stairs, landing, bathroom, toilet they were bright enough for those locations - I also used three in wall lights in the living room, on dimmers, where they were simply not adequately bright. Dimmer was always on max.. None of those lamps have ever failed.

It was these last last three lamps, which I recently replaced with higher wattage dimmable LED's, then ended up having to replace the dimmer switches as well, because the originals were not compatible. Light level at max, is now more than adequate, but can be turned down to just a gentle glimmer when it suits.

I accept the point made about working life varying, based on the orientation of the lamp and the type of fitting a lamp is installed in, but that is beyond the control of lamp manufacturers. It is down to purchasers to accept they will suffer a reduced working life, the worse the conditions, hotter/less natural cooling they get.
 
but that is beyond the control of lamp manufacturers. It is down to purchasers to accept they will suffer a reduced working life,

The manufacturers of LED lamps can prevent a reduced working life by driving the LED elements with less current. Very often the elements are driven at their absolute maximum rated current.

Driving an element with a current significantly lower than it's rated current will prolong the working life while not reducing the light output significantly.

From memory of trials a few years ago ;- reducing the current by 10% reduced the light output by 4%
 
I seem to remember the "Optimisation Unit"
upload_2021-12-31_11-53-43.png
claimed to save energy, by reducing the voltage by 7.5%. There was also a version built into a consumer unit. In the old days of florescent lamps with wire wound ballasts a slight over voltage resulted in a massive over current, and a slight under voltage stopped the lights striking, so the idea was to stop the over voltage so save energy. However it only really helped with the florescent lamp, and once the electronic HF ballast came out, it was no longer required.

When the voltage was changed from 240 volt +/- 5% to 230 volt + 5% - 10% in real terms the voltage did not change, called harmonisation we dropped 10 volt and rest of EU went up 10 volt, so now all at 230 volt nominal voltage. But the increased tolerance resulted in no need to change anything. However a 220 volt fluorescent uses well over rated watts when used with 240 volt, and a 240 volt fluorescent is going to have problems striking at 220 volt, hardly any other item was affected.

With the arrival of solar panels and EV charging points the voltage became critical, to ensure they fail safe if either whole supply lost or PEN lost they have a voltage window of 207 to 253 volt, if the voltage goes out of that window they close down, so the DNO was forced to go around actually dropping the voltage tapping to ensure voltage stayed within the range.

I had an old 65 watt fat fluorescent fitting, and the 65 watt tube supply had dried up, but the 58 watt worked OK, slightly shorter life, but within acceptable limits, however when my volts dropped from 245 which it had been for years to 230 volt, that was the end of being able to use 58 watt tubes, I was forced to move to LED tubes.

So our supply has changed, and also we now have items likely to warp the wave form, and cause spikes. Since I don't have an oscilloscope I can't check for spikes and warped wave form, however in my old house with just two RCD's I noted they would have bouts of tripping, would hold for 2 years then trip 6 times in a fortnight and then another 2 years without tripping.

I could find no fault, and assume spikes on the supply, the same spikes could take out LED lights, and since not been around that long, if fitted in the 2 year spike free time they would seem OK, but fit in the fortnight of spikes and they could fail, and it is unlikely any tests would show the reason.

In 10 years time we may have located the problems and done some thing to stop it, but LED lights are relativity new, we have not had them long enough to work out problems.

In the old days most electronic equipment started with a step down transformer, then came the front loading video machine, and the switched mode power supply designed to emit less heat so the unit could go under the TV without over heating, since then the switched mode power supply has become standard in all sorts from freezers and washing machines to LED bulbs. Which means electronic chips with no transformer to remove spikes.

So we have the SPD, which it seems no one quite knows what to do with them, one minute we are not fitting a MCB to supply them as the resistance of the MCB will reduce their effectiveness, next we have a MCB. Some are twin module units, and some single, and it is all very well talking about risk assessments, but electricians like me at 70 year old are baffled as to how to do that risk assessment, in real terms we fit them as we simply don't know if required or not, but think better to fit and be on the safe side.

Then we wonder why the 500 volt insulation tester is showing fail? Be it RCD testing or insulation testing the whole procedure has been turned on its head. We were always told test a RCD with nothing connected, then we are told DC can stop them working so need testing as well under load so if DC is freezing them we will know. And in spite of having type AC, A, F, and C on the RCD tester we are told to comply only test as type AC?

In real terms we all need to return to school and re-train, but not yet as the collage and University lecturers need to work it all out first.

Yes not directly related to LED life, but the whole system is interacting with each other, and even as electricians we are surmising (guessing) what is going on.

So back to the SPD, are these the reason why some people do not have issues with LED life and others do? But if no spikes in the first place, then SPD will not help, so a report "I have not got a SPD and my bulbs last and last." means nothing.

Personally I have a SPD fitted, but was only in this house for 6 months without one, so can't really say reason for few LED failures is the SPD. It could also be due to having electronic light switches, or still having one or two tungsten around.
 
For what it is worth

The joys horrors of measuring current into an LED lamp. :evil:

Differential measuring across the lamp's 215 Ohm fusible resistor in series in the Neutral enable one to calculate the current flowing
waveform 1 LED lamp.jpg

Peak to peak on the scope is 20 Volts ( probes are 1:10 ) and the RMS voltmeter reads the voltage as 7 Volts RMS which suggests the current is about 32 mA.

( I = V / R = 7 V / 215 = 0.032Amp )

The rated current for the lamp is 4mA for the 1 Watt power which does compute 230 V x 4 mA = 0.92 Watt

4 mA or 32 mA ?

The simple RMS calculations cannot be used as the load is a capacitive load and calculations are only valid for a small part of the wave form
 
Megaman CFLs, lol! They lasted many years, unfortunately no longer available and not immediate 100% light output like LEDs.

Hive bulbs are expensive but I've had one on all night, every night for the last 5 years or so and it still works.
 
So back to the SPD, are these the reason why some people do not have issues with LED life and others do? But if no spikes in the first place, then SPD will not help, so a report "I have not got a SPD and my bulbs last and last." means nothing.

How does one tell if an SPD is (a) in good condition and working or (b) has been destroyed by a big hit from a spike and thus rendered inoperative.
 
I've been buying Philips ones making the (possibly incorrect) assumption that they're going to be decent quality.
Having done a fair bit of experimenting over the years, I've come to the conclusion that expensive / 'reputable make' LEDs are, in general, no more reliable than are the 'cheap and nasty' ones. For what it's worth, I therefore now always buy the cheapest I can find.

However, given the title of this thread (Which LED bulbs actually last as long as they're supposed to?), it is perhaps appropriate for me to again wheel out my 'Statistics 101' tutorial about the quoted life expectancies of products such as these, since there seem to be some misconceptions which lead to unrealistic expectations ....

... the 'average life expectancies' quoted for things like LEDs (and many other manufactured products) are 'medians'. That means that if the average life expectancy is quoted as, say, 20,000 hours, then half of them are expected to survive for 20,000 hours or more. However, it tells one nothing about the half of them that do not survive for at least 20,000 hours.

Hence, if half of the LEDs last for at least 20,000 hours, but none of the other half even get to 200 hours, the 'average' (median) life expectancy is still (correctly) 20,000 hours.

This is not just theoretical/hypothetical. Very early failure is common with products like LEDs, although those which survive the initial period are likely to last a long time - i.e. many may not survive for 1,000 hours but those which do are very likely to survive for at least 20,000 hours.

The bottom line is that, even if the manufacturers are telling the truth about an average (median) life expectancy of, say, 20,000 hours, you should not be surprised if a very substantial proportion suffer from early failure (perhaps very early failure in some cases).

Kind Regards, John
 
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