Which trade costs the most?

'Jack of all trades, master of none' is used as a derogatory term.

I could generalise that you are infact overweight, drink tea by the litre, read the Sun and make lewd remarks to housewifes.

But I won't, because that is making assumptions about you.

Funny though how your number of posts went from 7 to 13 shortly after I made the previous post!

Hit a nerve did I! ;)

Touche' :D
 
Sponsored Links
I agree, in some ways, with 'Contractor'. Any profession which attracts decent wages, also attracts its fair share of charlatans.

For example, I'm not in the building game - I'm in computing. I come from the 'old school' where there was no such thing as 'Windows' and the Internet had not been invented yet. In those days we had to *really* know what we were doing... because the technology was so new, and so flaky, that you had to understand how it worked just to get it going. You needed native ability, commitment, and time.

Nowadays, since computing is so accessible, the industry is flooded with pimply-faced halfwits who, having read a book or two, seem to manage to kid people that they are competent. All they do is try, try again until it works (kindof).

I imagine it's the same in the building game. DIY is big business, and the telly tells us it's easy... right? And demand for skilled people has never been higher... so there is bound to be a fair proportion of people with 20% ability and 80% bullsh*t, who blag their way through the job.

I'm sure we all recognise these guys. I'm sure Janitor and Handyman and Coggy all recognise them too, and would flame them just as much as you would.... because you guys all share the same pride in what you do.

However.

I believe, and I always will believe, that being a generalist (through having a general range of experience) is not the same as being unable to specialise (through having a lack of specific talent).

I'm also prepared to accept that a generalist is perhaps limited in the extent to which he can develop any one particular strand of skill. But that doesn't mean he can't develop his range of skills to a good overall standard, if he has the pride and motivation to do it.

Be honest - if you and your colleagues on site, recognise these 'dilutees' - some of that will be real (because some of them are fakes as I've said) but some of it will be pride or one-upmanship - we've all grafted hard for the qualifications we've got, and seeing other people in the same job. on the same wage, without those qualifications, does tend to irritate us.

However. It's definitely true that the engineering trades in general (electrics, plumbing, joinery, bricklaying...) are pretty much a 'closed shop'... so is it really fair to criticise people who, despite the really hard barriers to entry, still enter the industry and make a go of it?

Take me. As I said in an earlier post, I've done quite a bit over the years in a range of domestic properties. I'm not an idiot, and I am wise enough to know what I know and what I don't. I would *love* to develop my abilities (particularly in domestic electrics and plumbing) into a profession. But the need for the workplace assessment for an NVQ, for example, makes that impossible for me (34, 2 kids, mortgage, wife.... etc... no way I can jack in my current job and do an apprenticeship).

In general, you guys with the cast-iron CV, are not interested in small jobs. That's not a criticism - it's a fact. So there has to be room for other people to provide that service and, if it's essentially a different service to what you provide, then maybe a different range of skills is appropriate.

Again, just my £0.02. I fully understand your point of view, being (as I said) a time served professional in my own field, who gets really wound up when the people I regard as 'amateurs' rear their heads. However...... that's when they step into my patch. Maybe, on their own patch, they would do a better job than me, and I should have the grace to admit it.

Phew. long post !

Cheers.
 
CJG,

sometime ago, I suggested an IT forum on the site which they have agreed to :D (all the IT forums I have seen are aimed at the professional).

I'll save my Windowe2000 Virtual DHCP / Windows 98Se via crossover cable question for you till then!
 
Of course having the necessaries that says you can do the job properly doesn't necessarily = the job getting done properly.
I'd prefer someone who is competent and has pride in their work, whether they're fully qualified or not, rather than just go for someone with the papers.
As yet I've read nothing on this board that makes me think the pros on here do not have pride in their work and strive to give good value for money, having said that there seems to be an awful lot of people out there, qualified and unqualified, whose sole aim is making as much money as quickly as possible. A good, safe job done properly seems to come way down the list with them and thet taint things for everyone.
 
Sponsored Links
Building Contractor said:
Masona: If you are not a time server tradesperson, how do you know you have done the roof properly?, just because you 'think' it's right does not mean it 'is' right.
True,I get carried away sometime ! I have 3 city & guilds in the building trades so that must've helped :) All right then,I should have said painting then :cool:
 
Hi,

I guess gentlefolk that the proof remains in the pudding !!

Satisfied customers over a period of time provide the 'best' adverts for your work.

Have a bro in law who was apprentice bricklayer with small firm, he was required to learn and become proficient in the basic essentials of Plumbing and Electrics ... Now retired, he was always busily self employed in local work ...

He might very well say that the 'craik' was good !!

One thing I would advise, do not forget your retirement .... Ok pensions have a bad press ... right now .... remember the early years of investment provide the largest returns in later years ... you CANNOT start too early, ok there is some risk .... but certainty of near poverty in doing nothing !!

P
 
I am a "time served" tradesperson. I've done many of the trades I offer for many years. However, I don't have any relevant paper qualifications, neither have I done an apprenticeship. What I do find myself doing for about 30% of my time, is tidying up after so-called professional tradesmen who might well have employed their hard-earnt professional skill to good effect in completing the job, but have lacked the common sense to do a job in the most practical way (one recent example: electrician laid in supply to electric shower, but didn't bother putting the cable under the floorboards. Instead, pinned 50% of its length to the skirting). As I said earlier (or may be in another post) you cannot get a qualification in common sense.

Claims to being "time served" is hardly a valid reason to charge top rates, but doing a good job, on time, and within quote, might be.
 
Handyman said:
Claims to being "time served" is hardly a valid reason to charge top rates, but doing a good job, on time, and within quote, might be.
Agreed, that's what I said in my previous post, even "time served trademans" cut corners and bodges the job up. I know because 60% of my work was correcting the job that caused by these timed serve trademan !!!
There's no things as top rates,if so what is it ? People will only pay if they're happy with the price.
 
OK
@mildmanneredjanito: If you think I went around the forums just to appease you, you need to get your head out of the clouds my good man :rolleyes:

@cjgarlick: Very well said, some valid and well thought points to ponder on, but sometimes it takes time to train up a man from a 'dilutee' and time is money. I know we should be training more but sometimes pressure of work comes to bear. :cry:

@Handyman: Time served means serving up to 5-7 years with a fellow time served tradesman... not how many years you have been pottering around. Also you get bochers in any trade, but in my experience most time served have pride in thier job, its usually DIY's off in thier little vans who cause most the hastle.

@Masona: 3 city & guilds in what?


OK...a little quiz, who can tell me what is a point loading in a structual calc?
This is fairly basic stuff so all you 'builders' should know ;)
 
Building Contractor said:
Masona: 3 city & guilds in what?
Carpentry & joinery,Bricklaying & Plumbing part 1 & didn't finish part 2 as I was told by loads of fed-up plumbers to get out of it ! Not sure if I done the right thing now but left the building trade over 22 years ago.
 
masona said:
Building Contractor said:
Masona: 3 city & guilds in what?
Carpentry & joinery,Bricklaying & Plumbing part 1 & didn't finish part 2 as I was told by loads of fed-up plumbers to get out of it ! Not sure if I done the right thing now but left the building trade over 22 years ago.

You seem a handy chap masona, I've been reading some of your posts and you give some good advice. I once knew a chap like you on the sites, he went around all the new houses snaging, learnt quite a bit from him and enjoyed his company a lot...:)
 
Building Contractor said:
OK
@Handyman: Time served means serving up to 5-7 years with a fellow time served tradesman... not how many years you have been pottering around.

5-7 years with a fellow tiler, plus 5-7 years with a fellow plumber, plus 5-7 years with a fellow electrician, plus 5-7 years with a fellow carpenter, plus 5-7 years with a fellow painter. That's 25-35 years time-served experience that I ought to have under my belt before I tackle any of the jobs I'm called on to do - because most of them are multi-trade jobs. I'll be dead before I get all this experience :LOL: My customers want me to do all thses things because they are fed up with (a) trying to get any qualified tradesman to come along and do a small job (at any price), (b) tracking down tradesmen to each tackle their specialist task and get them to coordinate their activities is impossible, and (c) one phone call to me gets them a guaranteed good job at a fair price.
 
The problem is, there's not enough trademan to go round and this government is doing nothing to help the building trade.They have shutdown the building colleague apprenticeship in my town and replaced it with university students instead. :rolleyes:
 
interesting stuff - and some real sense being spoken too.

just cant resist picking up on a small point though. its that 'jack of all trades' saying - ive always thought it was a bit suspicious but reading this has made me realise why.

it is a statement that makes one big assumption - that the world is neatly pigeonholed into trades...

basicaly saying that you can only be good at one of them.

this is tantamount to saying that you can only be good at one thing (and when you start talking about time served you add the factor of time) over a fairly long period of time - and mediocre at everything else.

now it only seems to apply to trades.

but we would all agree that its possible to be a master tradesman/woman and also a good father, cook, driver, friend. - within reason :) .

so suddenly things that you dont get paid for are exempt from the equasion. or does this really mean all good plumbers are bad fathers?

if so do you become better at a second trade if you dont get paid for it?

It is clearly a load of bollaux
 

DIYnot Local

Staff member

If you need to find a tradesperson to get your job done, please try our local search below, or if you are doing it yourself you can find suppliers local to you.

Select the supplier or trade you require, enter your location to begin your search.


Are you a trade or supplier? You can create your listing free at DIYnot Local

 
Sponsored Links
Back
Top