Which type of RCBO fits this CU?
- Thread starter banjo67xxx
- Start date
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Thanks - just re-read the regs, and thanks to your help I'm now satisfied that I dont actually need an RCD. So, I'll take your advice and leave everything alone.
True, but if there are non-RCD-protected final circuits in the room (even if outside of zones) does that not impose a requirement for supplementary bonding, in terms of both current and older regulations?
Kind Regards, John
All my water pipes are plastic, so there isn't anywhere to fit supplementary bonding. How does that work?
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Plastic pipes obviously don't need bonding. Are there no metal-plumbed radiators (or metal waste pipes, albeit fairly rare these days) in the room?
Kind Regards, John
Ah, yes. There's a metal towel rail. Its only the thickness of the wall away from the external light switch. But its going to look very ugly getting an earth wire through the wall to it.
Is it acceptable to perform the earth bonding to the CH pipes to the towel rail under the floor using an earth from the downstairs lighting ring?
I would have an electrical installation conditional report done first, then from that you will know what requires sorting out.
Then you should have an electrical installation certificate for that then, issued by the installer and certification of compliance from building controls.
But if there is no RCD protection on this lighting circuit, then it is highly likely to be non-compliant!
If above 2.25mm from floor of bathroom, then they are outside the zones.
That would depend on the way circuit was wired, buried cable will almost always require RCD protections if not mechanically protected.
The size of the cable and any de-rating factors of the method it which they were installed would require to be calculated, but I doubt a 16A devices on cable sized at 1.00mm would be acceptable, if any de-rating factors are applied.
The requirements or BS7671 state that bathroom circuits require RCD protection, so if this work was done in 2011 then RCD protection is a requirement. There is a grey area within part p with regards to the bathroom zones and notification but no mention within BS7671 that states that this would exclude RCD protection of equipment outside zones but still in bathrooms.
No there isn't.
The Building Regulations - The Law:
6A) A person intending to carry out building work in relation to which Part P of Schedule 1 imposes a requirement is required to give a building notice or deposit full plans where the work consists of—
(a)the installation of a new circuit;
(b)the replacement of a consumer unit; or
(c)any addition or alteration to existing circuits in a special location.”;
...
“special location” means—
(a)within a room containing a bath or shower, the space surrounding a bath tap or shower head, where the space extends—
(i)vertically from the finished floor level to—
(aa)a height of 2.25 metres; or
(bb)the position of the shower head where it is attached to a wall or ceiling at a point higher than 2.25 metres from that level; and
(ii)horizontally—
(aa)where there is a bath tub or shower tray, from the edge of the bath tub or shower tray to a distance of 0.6 metres; or
(bb)where there is no bath tub or shower tray, from the centre point of the shower head where it is attached to the wall or ceiling to a distance of 1.2 metres; or
(b)a room containing a swimming pool or sauna heater.”.
That's all there is.
That someone has decided to translate the simple into verbose complexity elsewhere is irrelevant.
My response with regards to BS7671 and RCD protection not notification procedures. But the op does state the circuit was re-wired 2011 and therefore notification would be required regardless.
Also the building regulations were worded differently in 2011 and outside zones, where not deemed non-notifiable within bathrooms. So should have then been notified!
Also the building regulations were worded differently in 2011 and outside zones, where not deemed non-notifiable within bathrooms. So should have then been notified!
So if anyone asks, what year should I say it was re-wired?
Not necessarily.
They were.
Not so. It was just the same.
Items which were NOT notifiable then:
2. Work which—
(a)is not in a kitchen, or a special location;
(b)does not involve work on a special installation; and
(c)consists of—
(i)adding light fittings and switches to an existing circuit, or
(ii)adding socket outlets and fused spurs to an existing ring or radial circuit.
3. Work on—
(a)telephone wiring or extra-low voltage wiring for the purposes of communications, information technology, signalling, control and similar purposes, where the wiring is not in a special location;
(b)equipment associated with the wiring referred to in sub-paragraph (a);
(c)pre-fabricated equipment sets and associated flexible leads with integral plug and socket connections.
4. For the purposes of this Schedule—
“kitchen” means a room or part of a room which contains a sink and food preparation facilities;
“self-contained” in relation to a fixed building service means consisting of a single appliance and any associated controls which is neither connected to, nor forms part of, any other fixed building service;
“special installation” means an electric floor or ceiling heating system, an outdoor lighting or electric power installation, an electricity generator, or an extra-low voltage lighting system which is not a pre-assembled lighting set bearing the CE marking referred to in regulation 9 of the Electrical Equipment (Safety) Regulations 1994(1);
“special location” means a location within the limits of the relevant zones specified for a bath, a shower, a swimming or paddling pool or a hot air sauna in the Wiring Regulations, seventeenth edition, published by the Institution of Electrical Engineers and the British Standards Institution as BS 7671: 2008(2).
Yes but no mention of the definition of the zones of the bathroom as there is now. Which would not have excluded the equipment as outside zones.
I am not going to tell you to be untruthful, where are the certs?
The work consisted of adding 4 IP rated lights and a light/fan above 2.25m, 3 12v lights in zone 1, and fitting switches and 12v transformer outside the room. This was all on the existing lighting ring.
The electrician's company also did the plumbing and carpentry, and fitted a chrome towel rail connected to copper CH pipes.
The 4 IP rated lights were not IP rated, there was no supplementary bonding on the towel rail, and no RCD on the lighting circuit. I was not given a certificate, not even a receipt. He ignores all complaints and has changed the name of his company again recently.
From this thread I gather that I either need supplementary bonding on the towel rail or an RCD.
For an RCD: As there are no RCBOs rated at 5A for this CU and not enough space nor busbars for an extra RCD, then it would need a whole new CU.
For supplemantary bonding: It would have to be accessible and so look ugly
Does SELV in zone 1 change things and make it notifiable and require RCD?
The electrician's company also did the plumbing and carpentry, and fitted a chrome towel rail connected to copper CH pipes.
The 4 IP rated lights were not IP rated, there was no supplementary bonding on the towel rail, and no RCD on the lighting circuit. I was not given a certificate, not even a receipt. He ignores all complaints and has changed the name of his company again recently.
From this thread I gather that I either need supplementary bonding on the towel rail or an RCD.
For an RCD: As there are no RCBOs rated at 5A for this CU and not enough space nor busbars for an extra RCD, then it would need a whole new CU.
For supplemantary bonding: It would have to be accessible and so look ugly
Does SELV in zone 1 change things and make it notifiable and require RCD?
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