Why smart thermostats don't always save you money

[mcprinter]

I have edited my post to clarify I mean TRV's rather than just "thermostats", can you confirm the TRV's do communicate with the hub and this then turns the boiler off. Thanks

Yes. The TRVs communicate with the hub. You have to pair each one with the hub and name it.
Wiser call them 'Radiator Thermostats'
They are a combined TRV and programmable stat. Measure the temp, call for heat and wind themselves open/closed.

 

[shagster]

I'm just curious are those wiser TRVs compatible with the Drayton TRV4s I've fitted, e.g. can I just remove the head part and screw these down instead or is more work needed (e.g. draining the system)? Sorry if this is a dumb question.

 

[mcprinter]

I'm just curious are those wiser TRVs compatible with the Drayton TRV4s I've fitted, e.g. can I just remove the head part and screw these down instead or is more work needed (e.g. draining the system)? Sorry if this is a dumb question.

Yes compatible. Inspired by the TRV4 apparently.
Remove TRV4 head. Replace with Wiser head. Pair with Hub. Calibrate. All very easy.
No draining.
Kit with 5 TRVs currently under £240 on Amazon Black Friday. I paid £280 a month or so ago.

 

[shagster]

Black Friday was one of the reasons to look at this today. I did one of those online energy assessments where they ask you all kinds of things about your house and then they tell you roughly what different things will cost you and how much you might make back off it. One of the things they mentioned was zoned central heating. I'm assuming it would be the equivalent of zoned heating if you put the TRVs on all rads and controlled them centrally? I think at the time (couple of years ago) they gave the approximate cost as £450, which is roughly in line with this. Yesterday's combined bill was a record £10 for our 3-bed (admittedly we had a sick child in the house all day so we were being free and easy with the heat). in any case I'm thinking now is the time to bite.

 

[mcprinter]

Zones are usually upstairs and downstairs. Better than single.
Wiser, Tado and Evohome go further. I think I priced Evo and Tado at about £700

I have 9 rads and a towel rail in a 3 bed, 2 bath, 2 recep.
Only 2 of us so don't really use some rooms day to day. They are on standard TRVs.
Towel rail heats every time the system runs. You should have a 'bypass' rad or rail on manual valves.

The ability to set schedules for each room is what sold it to me.

 

[old duffer]

Read my history as to what i did with the install of a "Zero-Zone" system using the Wiser Drayton system.
Best thing i have ever done in the house. Works a dream.
I no longer have a need for individual thermostats as each radiator valve is independant.
I removed the zone valves, put E-TRVs on EVERY rad, Installed a diverter valve for the bypass and have never looked back.

Amazeballs.

I became zone free and thermostat free but I used maths to calculate the design of the system based upon individual room heat loss. My entire house temp range is within .50-1 degree and gas consumption was reduced by around 60% compared to the old multi zoned pipework and storage. Property is around 17-18 degrees (@ 18 the rooms feel too warm now).
The other major upside is that there are no draughts

 

[^woody^]

Wiser saves money, in combination with an Opentherm boiler, by moderating the circuit temperature to avoid constant cycling of the boiler at full power, instead moderating the burner to provide lower heat. Also takes account of local external temperatures, and learns about how long a room takes to heat up and the room heat loss, and factors these in.

This also saves wear on the boiler due to fewer on/off cycles and gives a much more even room temperature.

 

[shagster]

One very good reason to buy an OpenTherm boiler, and not the POS Vaillant that I have. Yeah, I know you can buy a conversion module (that is never in stock anywhere), but why should I? Should be made illegal to sell such boilers with all the green initiatives these days.

 

[Mister Banks]

Doesn’t OpenTherm only work with combi boilers? I also think that modern condensing boilers self modulate so an OT boiler is reported to only be 2% more efficient.

 

[old duffer]

Wiser saves money, in combination with an Opentherm boiler, by moderating the circuit temperature to avoid constant cycling of the boiler at full power, instead moderating the burner to provide lower heat. Also takes account of local external temperatures, and learns about how long a room takes to heat up and the room heat loss, and factors these in.

This also saves wear on the boiler due to fewer on/off cycles and gives a much more even room temperature.

This is what they call over egging the pudding LOL....learns...really...it's AI then LOL

 

[IT Minion]

I like smart TRVs for making the house nicer to live in. Bedrooms get heated hottest in the morning just in time for waking up, then drop down to 15 degrees during the day, then back up to 20 before bed time.

They'll never pay for themselves in my house, but they're nice.

I'm considering going for an open therm compatible Thermostat but it's probably too much like hard work, so the Nest stays for now.

 

[Mister Banks]

I like smart TRVs for making the house nicer to live in. Bedrooms get heated hottest in the morning just in time for waking up, then drop down to 15 degrees during the day, then back up to 20 before bed time.

They'll never pay for themselves in my house, but they're nice.

I'm considering going for an open therm compatible Thermostat but it's probably too much like hard work, so the Nest stays for now.

Nest is OT compatible if you have a combi boiler.

 

[IT Minion]

Nest is OT compatible if you have a combi boiler.

I do, Wooster Bosch Greenstar of some sort about 4 years old.

I think, and am open to corrections, that the NEST implementation doesn't do any modulation of flow temperature.

 

[Mister Banks]

I do, Wooster Bosch Greenstar of some sort about 4 years old.

I think, and am open to corrections, that the NEST implementation doesn't do any modulation of flow temperature.

Worcester Bosch use EMS so you would need a converter to translate OT to EMS.

 

[ericmark]

Nest has OpenTherm but Wooster Bosch does not, as to how much it saves, the debate goes on.

My boiler is on/off only, cost me around £500 to refill oil tank, which is around the cost per year to heat my three story home. At 70 maximum of 30 years, likely a lot less, so any improvement must be paying for itself in 15 years.

So if it reduced my oil usage by 10% it needs to cost less than £750, not worth doing anything costing more. Since my house as it stands is rarely warm enough, any modification is unlikely to save me money, may make my home warmer, but will not save money.

So looking at better double glazing, cavity wall insulation, first. I could abandon main house in the heart of winter and live in the flat under main house. Not what I want to do, but still an option.

Cost of improving my house has become silly, stop the roof leaking, fit new hand rails, new patio doors, carpets with strengthening of floor, flooring the loft space, the list goes on, and likely every home is the same, be it removing wood decking and replacing with paving bricks, replacing the shed, at some point one needs to say enough is enough.

However Smart controls does make life easy, hey google turn on landing light is very handy, my wife is loosing the use of her fingers, hey google turn on bedroom lights, even when standing next to the light switch.

But earlier this year EE mast went down, and as a result my geofencing stopped working, we two days ago restarted the system, after getting my wife phone registered on the system, since she does not use EE chances or both her and mine mobile masts failing at same time is slim.

But yesterday when we were out, I still manually moved system from Eco to Comfort before starting off home, in case it did not auto do it.