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Do you think we could survive even if Europe let us leave.
will the UK ever leave the EU?
- Thread starter mark vincent
- Start date
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I believe we could, but it would need some radicle changes, one being
repatriate to their own countries those who contribute nothing to ours, no more free hand outs, withdraw all our troops from the phony wars, this would save a considerable amount of money.
We would need to put our own people to work in gainful employment, there is little in the world that we have not manufactured before, most of the best ideas have been developed by British engineers, but instead of exploiting them we have given them away.
We would need to be super efficient and be prepared to work for a reasonable wage, not an inflated amount, limit the top wages of the fat cats to a sensible level.
Wotan
repatriate to their own countries those who contribute nothing to ours, no more free hand outs, withdraw all our troops from the phony wars, this would save a considerable amount of money.
We would need to put our own people to work in gainful employment, there is little in the world that we have not manufactured before, most of the best ideas have been developed by British engineers, but instead of exploiting them we have given them away.
We would need to be super efficient and be prepared to work for a reasonable wage, not an inflated amount, limit the top wages of the fat cats to a sensible level.
Wotan
J
joinerjohn
Only problems I could foresee,,,, The UK would be held to ransom by Gas and Electricity suppliers on the continent. The EU would make life very uncomfortable for us. Germany and France have seen to it that the UK could never leave the EU now. They'd either stop supplying the UK with anything, or put prices up to any UK importer. UK exports to Europe would virtually cease. The French would blockade the channel ports. French air traffic control could refuse to give airspace to UK flights.
In short we'd be f****d.
In short we'd be f****d.
I was thinking about this the other day. Older prime ministers like Maggie Thatcher could afford to give Europe a rough ride, not bow to their demands and generally treat the EU with the disdain that it deserves.
Younger politicians might talk a good fight with Europe, but roll over at the slightest pressure exerted by the commissars. The EU rebate is one example, Thatcher fought tooth and nail for it, but Blair and his successors have handed most of it back. This is one of many examples.
What could be the reason for younger politicians selling us down the river? I reckon that older politicians knew that when their time comes, and the electorate tire of them, their future is retirement or the Lords (same thing really).
Blair, Brown and Cameron have, or will have, years to go before retirement following their premiership, so by keeping in with the EU they retain the option for future employment there.
I'm afraid we will always be the underdog to the EU, but funding more of its exceesses. Cameron comes over like Blair. An expert salesman, sometimes bordering on the smug. Just saying what the electorate want to hear, but doing nothing positive, or anything of any substance.
In short: we're f***ed.
Younger politicians might talk a good fight with Europe, but roll over at the slightest pressure exerted by the commissars. The EU rebate is one example, Thatcher fought tooth and nail for it, but Blair and his successors have handed most of it back. This is one of many examples.
What could be the reason for younger politicians selling us down the river? I reckon that older politicians knew that when their time comes, and the electorate tire of them, their future is retirement or the Lords (same thing really).
Blair, Brown and Cameron have, or will have, years to go before retirement following their premiership, so by keeping in with the EU they retain the option for future employment there.
I'm afraid we will always be the underdog to the EU, but funding more of its exceesses. Cameron comes over like Blair. An expert salesman, sometimes bordering on the smug. Just saying what the electorate want to hear, but doing nothing positive, or anything of any substance.
In short: we're f***ed.
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G
geraint
so where do the supplies emenate from...
1000 years ago, hell, 500 years ago, Britain was a pretty backward part of the world compared to Eastern Europe, Spain, Italy, Kazakhstan etc.
We rose to the top by being innovators, and through shrewd business.
It probably helped that we often went and nicked someone's country to ensure we could grow cotton, mine coal etc. but colonialism was all the rage back then.
A few hundred years of innovation and good business later, we were the foremost power of the world, the envy of all.
It works both ways though... during the same period, Spain went from being the richest nation on Earth with a huge powerbase down to a pretty backwards part of southern Europe that was poor enough that even poor British people could fly over there for a week or two and marvel at the backwardness of it all.
But now, they're buying up all our banks. Bu**er.
We rose to the top by being innovators, and through shrewd business.
It probably helped that we often went and nicked someone's country to ensure we could grow cotton, mine coal etc. but colonialism was all the rage back then.
A few hundred years of innovation and good business later, we were the foremost power of the world, the envy of all.
It works both ways though... during the same period, Spain went from being the richest nation on Earth with a huge powerbase down to a pretty backwards part of southern Europe that was poor enough that even poor British people could fly over there for a week or two and marvel at the backwardness of it all.
But now, they're buying up all our banks. Bu**er.
J
joinerjohn
Probably from the rest of the world...... But,, any imports that have to pass through European ports/Airports , could be blocked by the EU countries. Unless we thought ahead and imported directly via the USA.
To return to my post about whether we could leave the EU, though,,, What about the energy needs of this country? We are neither self sufficient in food nor produce enough power for the countries needs. The EU countries could turn off the gas supply to the UK. We would not have enough power for anyone to do anything. Industry would be on a 2 or 3 day week, families would go cold in winter, people would die, transport could grind to a halt as petrol and diesel became scarce. Inflation would hit unimaginable levels. Probably something like Germany during the Thirties, where you'd be going down the shops with a barrow full of money to buy a loaf of bread.
Europe could decimate the British economy in a few weeks. We'd be begging them to accept us back into the fold (on their terms)
Remember the time, French farmers wanted to block the UK imports of New Zealand Lamb?? I can... They wanted us to buy French and European lamb, at higher prices than we could buy it from NZ.
Yep we are well and truly f****d.
PS, couldn't help but correct your spelling.
Mind you there is an upside to all of this..... The Eastern Europeans would return home. Asylum seekers numbers would drop and probably stop, once they realised there was nothing left in the pot to give them benefits and work.
Mind you there is an upside to all of this..... The Eastern Europeans would return home. Asylum seekers numbers would drop and probably stop, once they realised there was nothing left in the pot to give them benefits and work.
I've often thought exactly the same myself. When they have picked the carcass clean, they will be off. Then we could go back to sensible immigrant levels like in the 80s. If only!
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What about the UK becoming part of the USA.
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The replies to this post sound a bit depressing and defeatist.
this is the point i was making to a friend the other day English people seem to be becoming psychologically conditioned to believe that there is no alternative to EU rule, the loss of National self confidence is a bit worrying, the prospect of the UK as a sovereign state outside the EU seems to worry a lot of people, this attitude of "how will we survive" or "they will cut off our gas"ect. is a sign that we are adopting the mindset of defeated nations, take Scottish nationalism for example a lot of people support the idea of independance but they wouldn't vote for it because they believe that Scotland couldn't stand alone, the English on the other hand knew from experience that Britain could and did stand alone and built a global trading empire, but since joining the EU the English seem to be developing a mindset similar to the Scots.
this is the point i was making to a friend the other day English people seem to be becoming psychologically conditioned to believe that there is no alternative to EU rule, the loss of National self confidence is a bit worrying, the prospect of the UK as a sovereign state outside the EU seems to worry a lot of people, this attitude of "how will we survive" or "they will cut off our gas"ect. is a sign that we are adopting the mindset of defeated nations, take Scottish nationalism for example a lot of people support the idea of independance but they wouldn't vote for it because they believe that Scotland couldn't stand alone, the English on the other hand knew from experience that Britain could and did stand alone and built a global trading empire, but since joining the EU the English seem to be developing a mindset similar to the Scots.
J
joinerjohn
I think the problem is in the original question. Could we survive if Europe let us leave. Hypothetical question anyway, because the EU won't let the UK leave now. Perhaps the UK used to be a global player, but not any more. The last government have conceded far too much to Europe.
The UK is now Europe's dumping ground. Asylum seekers crowd our southern border seeking any way they can to cross that thin strip of sea, with total encouragement from France. These asylum seekers know that they should seek help and assistance in the first European country they enter, yet ignore that to make their way to northern France.
Although the French Government won't admit it, they encourage them to get across the channel by any means. When people here complain about asylum seekers, they are accused of being xenophobic, racist and lacking compassion for fellow men. What are the French accused of? Nothing that's what.
The French deport immigrants at the drop of a hat. Even the Swiss now are planning to deport any immigrant found guilty of any crime. If that were to happen here, there would be an outcry form the Liberal do gooders. Even illegal immigrants here found guilty of murder, organised crime, drug dealing etc serve their short time in prison then claim it's against their Human Rights to be deported. Some excuses are ridiculous. There was one who claimed that because he now had a cat, his human rights would be infringed by being sent back to whatever country he came from.
Where did the Human Rights Act originate?? Hmm let me think about that,,,, Ahh yes the EU.
Why do you think the last government wouldn't let the UK have a referendum on Europe?? Why do you think the latest government won't let us have a referendum on Europe??
Simple answer, they are afraid of a resounding NO vote. You only have to look at the way the Irish voted a few years back. Europe made them vote again. Had the second vote been NO, there would have been successive votes until they got a YES.
I can't see the UK ever leaving the EU now. The EU would do all they could to stop us and if we did, I'm sure the EU would hold us to ransom in the ways I have described earlier.
The UK is now Europe's dumping ground. Asylum seekers crowd our southern border seeking any way they can to cross that thin strip of sea, with total encouragement from France. These asylum seekers know that they should seek help and assistance in the first European country they enter, yet ignore that to make their way to northern France.
Although the French Government won't admit it, they encourage them to get across the channel by any means. When people here complain about asylum seekers, they are accused of being xenophobic, racist and lacking compassion for fellow men. What are the French accused of? Nothing that's what.
The French deport immigrants at the drop of a hat. Even the Swiss now are planning to deport any immigrant found guilty of any crime. If that were to happen here, there would be an outcry form the Liberal do gooders. Even illegal immigrants here found guilty of murder, organised crime, drug dealing etc serve their short time in prison then claim it's against their Human Rights to be deported. Some excuses are ridiculous. There was one who claimed that because he now had a cat, his human rights would be infringed by being sent back to whatever country he came from.
Where did the Human Rights Act originate?? Hmm let me think about that,,,, Ahh yes the EU.
Why do you think the last government wouldn't let the UK have a referendum on Europe?? Why do you think the latest government won't let us have a referendum on Europe??
Simple answer, they are afraid of a resounding NO vote. You only have to look at the way the Irish voted a few years back. Europe made them vote again. Had the second vote been NO, there would have been successive votes until they got a YES.
I can't see the UK ever leaving the EU now. The EU would do all they could to stop us and if we did, I'm sure the EU would hold us to ransom in the ways I have described earlier.
with bulk lng carriers offloading in places like the isle of grain (9.8 million tonnes of lng per annum) and a new wave of nuclear power on the horizon, we may well be able to kiss our energy dependency on foreign powers goodbye. a decade, maybe 2, is all it would take.
i'd like to see that day as i do take a lot of pride in my country, even if i slag it off sometimes.
It's a simple argument...
Would you invest in a country that:
Has no resources..
Produces nothing of value that other country's want...
Cannot sustain itself with food/energy...
two out of three would suffice, but the UK is a 'strike out'...
I wish we'd never had joined the EEC (as it was first proposed), but now we have no way out unless we wish to default on our debts...
Would you invest in a country that:
Has no resources..
Produces nothing of value that other country's want...
Cannot sustain itself with food/energy...
two out of three would suffice, but the UK is a 'strike out'...
I wish we'd never had joined the EEC (as it was first proposed), but now we have no way out unless we wish to default on our debts...
This is an interesting thread & there are some thought provoking replies, I don't quite understand one or two points though-. Could Europe really stop us leaving? How? If we left, would they really turn around & say we don't need the British business anymore? Doesn't seem likely that any country can afford to turn down the financial benefits of exports, just because we're no longer part of the EU.
Seems to me that the seeds of our national undoing may have been sown by previous governments that privatised,sold abroad or just destroyed our manufacturing base. And it is this lack of self sufficiency that pervades the national outlook now and prevents us from taking postive action.
Personally, I think that belonging to Europe is a bit like owning an expensive motor, it looks good, makes a lot of noise, but costs far too much to drive.
Seems to me that the seeds of our national undoing may have been sown by previous governments that privatised,sold abroad or just destroyed our manufacturing base. And it is this lack of self sufficiency that pervades the national outlook now and prevents us from taking postive action.
Personally, I think that belonging to Europe is a bit like owning an expensive motor, it looks good, makes a lot of noise, but costs far too much to drive.
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