Will thermostat relay wire into a APT timer?
- Thread starter fitzykev
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Pretty much anything can be wired together, what are you trying to do and what is the themostat?
It is a netatmo brand relay for a wireless netatmo thermostat. The wireless thermostat on the wall sends the signal to the relay to turn on and off when thermostat reaches temperature or drops under temperature wich im sure you already knew. If possible I want to wire the relay to the timer so the wireless thermostat and relay start to do the work. As you can see in photo its a APT brand timer
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A thermostat, time clock and many other on/off devices come as two main types, volt free, and linked to the supply.
With the clock unless volt free it will lose it's time if second on the series connection, but most devices can be daisy chained to get what you want, however today the programmable thermostat is so cheap, this
Moes smart thermostat costs £35 and this one 
is sold under many badges at around £34, seen at low as £11 on ebay.
The main advantage is the time changes the temperature rather than simple on/off, so you can have 20ºC during the day 22ºC in the evening and 17ºC over night, to do that with stand alone timers and thermostats you need two timers and three thermostats, so it does not make sense not to use a combined unit.
Where it all changes is when you go wireless, anything wireless need to look at what happens when the signal is lost, I used this
thermostat in mothers house, and found room at 28ºC when it lost signal and did not turn off, however this one 
had a fail safe, and no signal in ½ hour and it auto turned off. I at first could not work out why the central heating installers had used such an expensive unit, but when the other one failed I knew why.
The room should have never reached 28ºC, the TRV head
should have turned off the water flow well before, but two problems, one 
the numbers 1 to 6 are about as much good as a chocolate fire guard, I want room at 22ºC not a clue if that is 2, 3, or 4. And next is down to speed, the electronic one auto exercises at 12 midday every Saturday, stops the pin sticking, and re-calibrates it, this takes around 3.5 minutes, this is how long it takes to fully open, fully close, and return to setting, so for the radiator not to get stinking hot while it does this, the lock shield valve is set so it takes at least 15 minutes for the radiator to heat up.
But if your setting the program on the TRV
then why also does it need setting on the thermostat? This seems 
great, but in real terms one has to ask why we even need a wall thermostat? Yes some thing to read the TRV's so when one needs the boiler to run, it does, but never really worked out why the wall thermostat is required, a hub to collect the info from the TRV's and tell the boiler what to do, but no need for it to actually measure room temperature other than a fail safe should a TRV fail in some way.
I say this because I got it wrong. I was told Energenie worked with Nest, it doesn't, so I have to set the TRV's and wall thermostat to work in harmony as best as I can, may seem odd, but it is not the heating which causes a problem, it is the cooling, my hall cools too slow, so hall still warm, but living room on the cool side.
So my idea is to make you think, and hopefully not make same mistake as I did.
With the clock unless volt free it will lose it's time if second on the series connection, but most devices can be daisy chained to get what you want, however today the programmable thermostat is so cheap, this
Moes smart thermostat costs £35 and this one is sold under many badges at around £34, seen at low as £11 on ebay.The main advantage is the time changes the temperature rather than simple on/off, so you can have 20ºC during the day 22ºC in the evening and 17ºC over night, to do that with stand alone timers and thermostats you need two timers and three thermostats, so it does not make sense not to use a combined unit.
Where it all changes is when you go wireless, anything wireless need to look at what happens when the signal is lost, I used this
thermostat in mothers house, and found room at 28ºC when it lost signal and did not turn off, however this one had a fail safe, and no signal in ½ hour and it auto turned off. I at first could not work out why the central heating installers had used such an expensive unit, but when the other one failed I knew why.The room should have never reached 28ºC, the TRV head
should have turned off the water flow well before, but two problems, one the numbers 1 to 6 are about as much good as a chocolate fire guard, I want room at 22ºC not a clue if that is 2, 3, or 4. And next is down to speed, the electronic one auto exercises at 12 midday every Saturday, stops the pin sticking, and re-calibrates it, this takes around 3.5 minutes, this is how long it takes to fully open, fully close, and return to setting, so for the radiator not to get stinking hot while it does this, the lock shield valve is set so it takes at least 15 minutes for the radiator to heat up.But if your setting the program on the TRV
then why also does it need setting on the thermostat? This seems great, but in real terms one has to ask why we even need a wall thermostat? Yes some thing to read the TRV's so when one needs the boiler to run, it does, but never really worked out why the wall thermostat is required, a hub to collect the info from the TRV's and tell the boiler what to do, but no need for it to actually measure room temperature other than a fail safe should a TRV fail in some way.I say this because I got it wrong. I was told Energenie worked with Nest, it doesn't, so I have to set the TRV's and wall thermostat to work in harmony as best as I can, may seem odd, but it is not the heating which causes a problem, it is the cooling, my hall cools too slow, so hall still warm, but living room on the cool side.
So my idea is to make you think, and hopefully not make same mistake as I did.
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I see no reason why it should not work, however I use oil, so with my set up, simple on/off, with gas it can normally modulate (turn down rather than off) so how a time switch would work with a modulating thermostat I am not sure.
It's oil I want it to work with. Get it up to temp then if it drops under it will kick in to bring it back up to temp. I don't want it to work along with existing timer I want to wire it in so it takes over from exsisting timer
I've no experience of this product and Quite frankly I find their installation instructions are terrible. I've not yet been able to establish the true use of the 2 cables... it looks like one is simply a mains supply, presumably the cable marked '230V' in your pic with brown/blue cores.
From there I've struggled with references to 'data bus' so I'm assuming there are more than one version of this module.
Tha fact the second cable has black/grey wires makes me THINK a relay module potentially has a clean contact (That means a relay contact connected only to those 2 wires and noting else) IF that is the case it can be used in place of your existing room thermostat.
Another bit of confusion; the time switch in your pic doesn't look typical of a central heating system, more like for an immersion heater for example.
So the questions:
1. Can you confirm the time switch is definitely controlling the heating.
2. Can you open the time switch/boiler/wiring centre(if you have one) and take pictures of how things are currently wired?
Please make sure everything is powered off before removing any covers.
This is potentially not a simple job (but it might be) and at the moment I haven't been able to gauge your abilities.
From there I've struggled with references to 'data bus' so I'm assuming there are more than one version of this module.
Tha fact the second cable has black/grey wires makes me THINK a relay module potentially has a clean contact (That means a relay contact connected only to those 2 wires and noting else) IF that is the case it can be used in place of your existing room thermostat.
Another bit of confusion; the time switch in your pic doesn't look typical of a central heating system, more like for an immersion heater for example.
So the questions:
1. Can you confirm the time switch is definitely controlling the heating.
2. Can you open the time switch/boiler/wiring centre(if you have one) and take pictures of how things are currently wired?
Please make sure everything is powered off before removing any covers.
This is potentially not a simple job (but it might be) and at the moment I haven't been able to gauge your abilities.
Ah this crossed in the post as I have been doing other things since starting my reply, What controls have you around your oil boiler? thermostats, valves, pump etc?
Does it heat water or just heating?
I am not sure which country your in but which magazine in thr UK thst tests and rates products had it as number 1 thermostat 3 years ago. One is mains power the other is to send and recieve the messages from the thermostat. I found it first class with thr gas boiler. On it it wired into the power of the boiler and then thr black and grey wired into the command part of thr boiler
OK that helps; What gas boiler (Model)?
How was it wired into the gas boiler; as an enable (maybe marked as 'Rooom Stat' or something similar) or as 'Bus' (assuming it's a fairly recent boiler)?
I've always struggled with Which reports as much of it is personal opinion and which person did the testing.
I did a spell of audio video installation and we'd spec kit, frequently the customer would refer to Which and ask us why we didn't use the best products, simply put we'd established our own views on many of the reviewed items and frequently come to completely different conclusions. As an example one CD player which came out top we had stopped using due to the time it took to open, but more importantly close, the drawer and which could only be done using the remote control. We'd had multiple faults of damaged drive mechanismwhere customers would try to push the drawer in.
Sorry, I tried to add a quote, but my phone was playing up - hopefully some of these posts may answer your questions @SUNRAY 
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Will my wireless thermostat reciever work ?
Will my wireless reciever wire directly into this timer switch? The brand of reciever is Netatmo
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Is wireless reciever going to work?
I asked about this a while ago but was asked for photos of wireless reciever for smart thermostat. I am only able to take reciever off now to get photos. So will this wire into the timer clock in the photo? And if so where does the black go and where does the grey go?
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Is this thermostat compatible with this boiler?
Good morning is the thermostat in the link compatible with this boiler? i have it on my gas boiler but will be moving house and its oil? https://www.netatmo.com/en-gb/energy/thermostat/specifications
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What is this at the side off boiler?
Can anyone tell me what this is at the side of boiler?
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