Go back to your OP. Basic system. Cheaper to get a new one. Especially for those in and around London.
Wireless the way forward?
- Thread starter joe-90
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Go back to your OP. Basic system. Cheaper to get a new one. Especially for those in and around London.
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To cover both visits?
Some of us have more profitable things to be getting on with.
And i'm making a possibly false assumption yu have your sensible hat on tonight.
A
AssociatedAlarm
Not to remove, fit a new spur if needed.
Adjust for the new circumstances.
But yes cheaper than the original price.
And of course the making good of the old fitting holes.
So a removal visit, a new visit to the new, assuming it does not need more items.
A bit more than £100 but yes, less than £700
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Agreed and accepted. No probs with an install,. The potential merry go round of remove/reinstall is the area of concern.
Some will/do want it but in general it is not going to make anyone rich.
S
skyboy
Please tell me thats not someone on heres' site!!...
S
skyboy
The first hurdle anyone has to decide is wether to have a wireless or hardwired system.
Here are the details about each system.
1. Hard wired. A wired system is one where wires actually come from the control panel and connect to every detection device in the home. Its advantages are that it is robust and reliable and can sometimes work out cheaper than a wirefree system as the component costs are less. However they are only really suitable for older properties where wiring can be hidden under floorboards or where you don't mind some remedial work to be done to plasterwork. If you are having a house built or renovated then a hardwired system is a good option. The downside is when you move home the alarm stays put.
2 Wirefree A wirefree system is the increasing way home alarms are being installed today. They are genererally very reliable and have fast become the generally accepted type of alarm installation. Modern wirefree alarms have extensive self test and fault indication. The advantages of wirefree are that no wires have to be installed to make the alarm work. This makes them ideal for modern homes where it is difficult to hide wires due to concrete flooring on the ground floor and chipboard sheeting rather than floorboards on the first floor. They are also ideal where you have newly decorated and don't want to disrupt the decor. An added advantage is that whe you move home you can take the alarm with you.
Here are the details about each system.
1. Hard wired. A wired system is one where wires actually come from the control panel and connect to every detection device in the home. Its advantages are that it is robust and reliable and can sometimes work out cheaper than a wirefree system as the component costs are less. However they are only really suitable for older properties where wiring can be hidden under floorboards or where you don't mind some remedial work to be done to plasterwork. If you are having a house built or renovated then a hardwired system is a good option. The downside is when you move home the alarm stays put.
2 Wirefree A wirefree system is the increasing way home alarms are being installed today. They are genererally very reliable and have fast become the generally accepted type of alarm installation. Modern wirefree alarms have extensive self test and fault indication. The advantages of wirefree are that no wires have to be installed to make the alarm work. This makes them ideal for modern homes where it is difficult to hide wires due to concrete flooring on the ground floor and chipboard sheeting rather than floorboards on the first floor. They are also ideal where you have newly decorated and don't want to disrupt the decor. An added advantage is that whe you move home you can take the alarm with you.
It is becoming the way forward but for the wrong reasons and because use of wireless will make a sale when a wired system would be rejected due to the disruption of installing the wires.
Wireless is ideal for point to point communication where one or more of the the points is mobile and for broadcasting the same message to several points, both fixed or mobile. It is also ideal for long distance communication between fixed points where installation and maintainance of cables would be prohibitively expensive such as transatlantic cables.
Wireless as used in modern technology driven homes is far from ideal. The major problem is there is no control over who and how many can buy and install items of equipment that have to share the same radio channel. Transmitted signals will be received by the receivers that are intended to hear the signal and by all other receivers in the area. This can caused many problems. It is often said that a receiver will only react to those transmitters that are registered to it ( have been learnt in ). It will only react to them if it can receive the signal from them clearly among the many other transmitters of other systems that using the same frequency.
Due to this problem the requirement for approval of such equipment requires that a transmitter is restricted to transmit for 1% of the time. This almost but not entirely ensures that no system is blocked by nearby transmitters of other systems.
This is why some wireless linked sensors "go to sleep" for a period of time after they have sent a message. The problem with low cost one way only communication is that if the first message they sent did not get recognised by the panel then it will be several seconds before the sensor can send it again. If the intruder is no longer near that sensor then it will not repeat the alarm. On better quality systems this 1% rule is still observed but the sensor will repeat the alarm message until the control panel replies to confirm the message was received. The sensor can now go to sleep for the 99% period.
i agree with bernard hardwired better over wirefree systems, but there is place for the wirefree systems, but most people think they can make a quick profit from the wirefree systems, example a builder has started having a certain wirefree system fitted on the new build homes. yes new build ! takes an hour to first fix for hardwired, why ? because some bright spark in the office was told wirefree was better and they could make more money on it. also a hardwired alarm fitted 20 years ago you can be 90% certain you can stick a replacement item on the end of the cable, can you say the same for wirefree ? 418mhz, 433mhz,868mhz whats next ?
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Well I've been fitting wired alarms for over 25 years so I agree to an extent, but I always hear the same thing "Nobody takes any notice".
So an alarm that's fitted quickly, can be taken with you when you leave, can send you a text upon activation, No carpets and boards to come up, can include the garage and shed, can include a fire zone and a pendent tag for mum that will call the daughter - just has to be a winner.
It's what the CPOs are telling people to get - and even though they are no-doubt getting a backhander - you can't tell people otherwise.
Many people rent houses today - it's a big market out there.
So an alarm that's fitted quickly, can be taken with you when you leave, can send you a text upon activation, No carpets and boards to come up, can include the garage and shed, can include a fire zone and a pendent tag for mum that will call the daughter - just has to be a winner.
It's what the CPOs are telling people to get - and even though they are no-doubt getting a backhander - you can't tell people otherwise.
Many people rent houses today - it's a big market out there.
In the mass market of un-informed people who believe the salesperson's sale talk that may be the case.
New builds can fit them at very low cost and add " complete with alarm system installed" as an extra sales point. They do not have to say whether the alarm works.
Generally is not good enough when describing reliability and is dubious when talking about who is accepting wirefree systems.
That is not true for several makes of wirefree systems. You have been corrected on that before. A system using one way wireless communications cannot have self test, it can only detect when a sensor has failed to report for more than a certain time. It cannot test to see if a sensor is still actively monitoring. Two way commincations requires the sensor to have a receiver as well as a transmitter. The receiver will drain the battery. It is possible to have battery economy receivers. These turn on for a tenth of a second every second. If they receive a signal they remain on till they receive a message. The transmit has to transmit more than a second of pre-amble to keep recievers active before it can send a message. On certain radio frequencies that is not permitted. It also adds to the cost of every sensor.
Like wise a system with one way communication cannot test to see if the bell box is still functional.
Fault indication. If a unit such as the bell box cannot tell the panel it is faulty then the only fault indication possible is something bleeping or flashing on the bell box. If a bell box battery fails rapidly before the owner has gone out to see if it is bleeping / flashing "low battery" then a dead bell box will not indicate it is faulty. Only when it fails to confirm alarm set will the owner realise the battery is dead. That is NOT adequate fault indication for a security system.
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Bernard. A standard wired siren unit won't tell you the strobe isn't working or the piezo siren - only that the tamper switch is closed. It's not uncommon to have a silent siren up there.
Also, a common problem with PIRs is that the relay contacts freeze in the closed position. It may look as if it's doing something but is in reality a complete ornament.
Not so perfect after all eh?
Also, a common problem with PIRs is that the relay contacts freeze in the closed position. It may look as if it's doing something but is in reality a complete ornament.
Not so perfect after all eh?
A
AssociatedAlarm
Hence the reason ANY system always recommends the end user does his/her own weekly/monthly tests (Delete as you wish).
But there are now more monitoring devices on sounders these days.
The sticky relays are almost a thing of the past now, not had to resolve one of those for years.
I know your advocating wireless and I do like it. If the customer wants it they have it but the best and one I know is as reliable as it possible to be.
So that takes out the low end stuff. Including some so called Pro stuff.
But there are now more monitoring devices on sounders these days.
The sticky relays are almost a thing of the past now, not had to resolve one of those for years.
I know your advocating wireless and I do like it. If the customer wants it they have it but the best and one I know is as reliable as it possible to be.
So that takes out the low end stuff. Including some so called Pro stuff.
Some modern piezo drivers can routinely test that the element is functional with a very short chirp during which time the element's capacity and resonant frequency are checked. If these have changed the device is suspect. Whether this function is used ion alarms I do not know.
Any good panel relying on relay contacts will detect a stuck contact and report it as a fault.
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