wooden window frames

[drjaymz]

Why not contact a company like this to see if they can help?

Window And Door Components | Joinery sections and profiles (wooduchoose.com)
Window Frames & Cills (terrystimber.co.uk)

Google's your friend in situations like these. The lesser of two evils might be to order a completely new window i.e. including frame.

Google isn't your friend when you didn't know the name of the bit you needed. But now I know I can probably work it out.

I found the original manufacturer, who changed names (which is always suggesting they are trying to escape their past) and I have contacted them. The new buildings they make are almost certainly the same design and they are not that far away - so we'll see if they come back. I doubt they will, because thats how things are these days.

 

[diy_fun_uk]

Google isn't your friend when you didn't know the name of the bit you needed. But now I know I can probably work it out.

I found the original manufacturer, who changed names (which is always suggesting they are trying to escape their past) and I have contacted them. The new buildings they make are almost certainly the same design and they are not that far away - so we'll see if they come back. I doubt they will, because thats how things are these days.

I'll disagree in that it often comes down to the searches you do. e.g. if you search 'different sections of wooden window' you'll find the info you need

Having said, this forum is also your friend in such matters!

 

[Deleted member 174758]

If you have a local Travis Perkins or Magnet it may be worth inquiring with them. At one time both firms had large joinery departments as well as offering a catalogue of standard profiles and a machine to order service for simpler profiles (e.g. rebated shaoes). I haven't bought machined profile like that for decades, though, as I either machined my own or I'd ring a mate, but if you said where abouts you are in the world maybe someome on here might be able to give you a recommendation for a shop local to you to contact

 

[opps]

Yeah - thats pretty much where I started this thread. And I guess that is why they sell complete window units.
At the end of the day there is a hole in a wooden frame 720x400 that it has to fit in, it can't be that hard.

My other plan was find some wood close and maybe route it or something since we don't seem to have any joiners anymore. I'm a bit annoyed as the window is 5 years old, but the rain has found its way between the glass and the frame and its been happily feeding whatever ate my window.

The water ingress is pretty common on timber double glazed units.

I am a decorator and having been dealing with this kind of stuff on my current exterior job...



Sorry, it is not the best of images but it was caused by water getting behind the exterior wooden bead and running down on the inside.

In the next image, I had to dig out most of the lower part of the window and splice in a section of 40mm tall by about 12mm deep timber using epoxy resin



On other windows, I had to use a router to create the profile of the wooden glazing bead and then use my bandsaw to rip it down. I then applied a bead of MS Polymer (CT1) to prevent water ingress where the timber moulding meets the glass.

It is definitely "do-able". the problem is that epoxy resins are expensive. If you are only doing a small job, £40 for a tube of epoxy resin plus £25 for a gun, plus £15 for the 2 pack epoxy wood hardener is expensive. You can buy epoxy resin that will work in a normal skeleton gun though

https://www.duluxdecoratorcentre.co.uk/repair-care-dry-flex-4-2-in-1-2022102

it is still £30 but no need for the special gun.

 

[crank39]

Years ago when I was repairing burglary damaged frames we used to remove the sash, board it up or temporary glaze the opening and take it to a local joinery shop to manufacture a new one copying the old

 

[drjaymz]

The water ingress is pretty common on timber double glazed units.

I am a decorator and having been dealing with this kind of stuff on my current exterior job...

View attachment 269321

Sorry, it is not the best of images but it was caused by water getting behind the exterior wooden bead and running down on the inside.

In the next image, I had to dig out most of the lower part of the window and splice in a section of 40mm tall by about 12mm deep timber using epoxy resin

View attachment 269322

On other windows, I had to use a router to create the profile of the wooden glazing bead and then use my bandsaw to rip it down. I then applied a bead of MS Polymer (CT1) to prevent water ingress where the timber moulding meets the glass.

It is definitely "do-able". the problem is that epoxy resins are expensive. If you are only doing a small job, £40 for a tube of epoxy resin plus £25 for a gun, plus £15 for the 2 pack epoxy wood hardener is expensive. You can buy epoxy resin that will work in a normal skeleton gun though

https://www.duluxdecoratorcentre.co.uk/repair-care-dry-flex-4-2-in-1-2022102

it is still £30 but no need for the special gun.

Yes, I think thats still much better price than a new window. But with a bit of fettling I can probably make the bit I need. I have removed 2 beads and if I remove the other two then I'm sure the window can be liberated. Putty was horrible stuff, but it should leave a non-setting seal which would have been better than hammering in the beading and hoping for the best.

You can't stop water - only encourage it to go where you want and let it out.

 

[drjaymz]

The other thing is that they keep telling us plastic lasts for ever, I have looked at composite plastic `timber` for making things that I would normally have used wood for and the cost is silly expensive (having said that timber is pretty expensive now too).

I think on a garden building there are parts its perfectly fine to make from wood but some parts should have been made from something more robust.

 

[Deleted member 174758]

The other thing is that they keep telling us plastic lasts for ever, I have looked at composite plastic `timber` for making things that I would normally have used wood for and the cost is silly expensive (having said that timber is pretty expensive now too).

I've used some composite to make prototypes - the problem is that in the stuff I tried the plastics were fairly soft which means that it isn't particularly stable in high temperatures. Alright for decking and garden benches and the like (with sufficient support) but not really a replacement for wood

I think on a garden building there are parts its perfectly fine to make from wood but some parts should have been made from something more robust.

You can get pitch pine, which is fairly indestructable, or even acoya softwood - but the price of that!

 

[drjaymz]

TLDR - we don't care your problem.

The OEM said....

Unfortunately, we don’t sell spare parts or offer an aftersales service at present.

It is partly due to current COVID having a knock on effect on the business, supplier issues, wood shortages and an inability to get the parts to you easily. It is just proving too hard to be able to facilitate without a negative impact.

It is also due to changing of specifications over the years and that we no longer can supply parts successfully, on the service buildings may look the same but in fact lots of components have been adapted in time.

Also, it is impossible to cater for an after sales demand which is to cover over 45 years of garden buildings so we have to try to limit / control this.

Our suggestion would be to look locally, a tradesperson / DIY / carpenter perhaps and they should be able to assist you with the repairs.

So back to plan a is that I will need to just fix it. I still think I should replace it with something that doesn't rot. I get the thermal expansion malarky, but its not a window on a aeroplane, its not pressurised, its a shed, +/- 5mm is good enough.
So I will have to go the that orange shop and see if I can find stuff to fix it.

I have some wet/dry rot killer. I removed wood that was like balsa. I'll treat that and then use some hardener and then try to make up the difference with 2 part filler. Presumably, what will then happen is it will look like its been made with modelling clay and then next year the next bit will rot and I'll just chase it around until the entire shed is made of epoxy. At which point - it probably won't rot.

 

[drjaymz]

Whilst I'm here, I should have repainted the building probably 2 years ago. I think that the paint it has on it has gone porus and now its letting moisture in and trapping it. So what do people recommend for repainting it. I have Capriol garden shades on the fences, but I feel thats more of a stain than a good paint for the building which is (was) a smoother finish. I'll just have to go this evening and have a look what they have.

The other thing is, being shiplap sanding it a little seems a bit awkward, but I'm thinking it only needs roughing up, there is no loose paint.

 

[lostinthelight]

Not worth repairing? I repaired this one about 12 years ago and to my knowledge is still in service.

 

[drjaymz]

Not worth repairing? I repaired this one about 12 years ago and to my knowledge is still in service.
View attachment 269448 View attachment 269449

Wait till you see how much I removed to get to solid wood. It needs more than a root canal.

 

[lostinthelight]

Wait till you see how much I removed to get to solid wood. It needs more than a root canal.

Sorry, I was going by the damage in the picture you posted

 

[opps]

TLDR - we don't care your problem.

The OEM said....

Unfortunately, we don’t sell spare parts or offer an aftersales service at present.

It is partly due to current COVID having a knock on effect on the business, supplier issues, wood shortages and an inability to get the parts to you easily. It is just proving too hard to be able to facilitate without a negative impact.

It is also due to changing of specifications over the years and that we no longer can supply parts successfully, on the service buildings may look the same but in fact lots of components have been adapted in time.

Also, it is impossible to cater for an after sales demand which is to cover over 45 years of garden buildings so we have to try to limit / control this.

Our suggestion would be to look locally, a tradesperson / DIY / carpenter perhaps and they should be able to assist you with the repairs.

So back to plan a is that I will need to just fix it. I still think I should replace it with something that doesn't rot. I get the thermal expansion malarky, but its not a window on a aeroplane, its not pressurised, its a shed, +/- 5mm is good enough.
So I will have to go the that orange shop and see if I can find stuff to fix it.

I have some wet/dry rot killer. I removed wood that was like balsa. I'll treat that and then use some hardener and then try to make up the difference with 2 part filler. Presumably, what will then happen is it will look like its been made with modelling clay and then next year the next bit will rot and I'll just chase it around until the entire shed is made of epoxy. At which point - it probably won't rot.

The Timbabuild (EWS) 2 part wood hardener is better than any single part wood filler that I have tried.

https://www.reddiseals.com/product/timbabuild-epoxy-wood-stabiliser/

Obviously, you should remove as soft wood as possible but where that isn't "completely" possible, it helps.

You can use standard 2 part polyester resin filler (rather than 2 part epoxy filler), but it is very likely to "blow" at some point because it is so rigid. If you use wood hardener and then paint the area before filling, it may provide greater longevity. Any water that gets in to any hairline cracks in the future will not soak in to the bare wood instantly.

Your references to the "orange shop"- do you mean B&Q? You will pay a premium for a limited range of products.

Eg

You can buy a 3.5kg tub of Easy 1 (2K) filler for £22 (inc delivery) from the likes of eBay

https://www.ebay.co.uk/p/28031290588

That works out to £6.29 per Kg.

At B&Q you will pay £20.91 per Kg (admittedly for a different brand).

 

[drjaymz]

The Timbabuild (EWS) 2 part wood hardener is better than any single part wood filler that I have tried.

https://www.reddiseals.com/product/timbabuild-epoxy-wood-stabiliser/

Obviously, you should remove as soft wood as possible but where that isn't "completely" possible, it helps.

You can use standard 2 part polyester resin filler (rather than 2 part epoxy filler), but it is very likely to "blow" at some point because it is so rigid. If you use wood hardener and then paint the area before filling, it may provide greater longevity. Any water that gets in to any hairline cracks in the future will not soak in to the bare wood instantly.

Your references to the "orange shop"- do you mean B&Q? You will pay a premium for a limited range of products.

Eg

You can buy a 3.5kg tub of Easy 1 (2K) filler for £22 (inc delivery) from the likes of eBay

https://www.ebay.co.uk/p/28031290588

That works out to £6.29 per Kg.

At B&Q you will pay £20.91 per Kg (admittedly for a different brand).

Indeed b and q because everyone else gone out of business.

I'm going to look at the stock and go from there. There's a wicks next door.