Worcester 24i combi boiler problems !!

[HarrogateGas]

It seems some companies actually use emergencies to make money than help out someone like myself.

I know, lets all work for free just to help you out. I dont take my car in for a new clutch and expect the job doing for £20. I also dont expect to travel 30mins across town, pull out my box of tools worth thousands of pounds out of my van which costs £250 a month, go to you boiler and do a speedy, knowledgeable repair achieved by the fact i pay for courses, Corgi registration and ACS every 5 years. And then you pay me £20.


Get real

 

[cdg]

I can hear the sound of ranks closing. The ONLY time when nearly all of the experts agree!!

It IS a DIY site, the chap HAS said he is broke. Repairs CAN be expensive and albeit no more expensive than say a solicitor or garage but at no point did he say that he thought these weren't even more expensive and more distasteful!

He MAY do his own car work, he MAY have never used a solicitor and he MAY have good teeth.

Lighten up, take the fact that people (non-experts) on this site are cheapskates by the very fact that they want to spend their own time doing things themselves instead of having to pay for someone else to do it.

If everyone employed professional (I use the term loosely as I'm not aware if there are any Professional accreditation for Heating Engineers, I'm certain there well may be) services then this site would not need to exist.

Jeez.

I happen to work in an industry where most customers believe we overcharge but there is no option to DIY, so they moan just for the sake of it, even though our rates are 60% less than any alternative that they do have. Ya just take it on the chin, appreciate that they do not know all of the hidden, variable and fixed costs and move along - cos there's little point arguing/justifying.

Kent Brockman

I've now gone and taken this post off topic, damn it

 

[scatmanjohn]

It seems some companies actually use emergencies to make money than help out someone like myself.

What do you mean "some"

As a matter of interest what is your chosen occupation

 

[gloverd]

Cheers CDG,


Sounds like you have your head on the right way !

I could see them closing ranks, obviously they are people who charge quite high for what they do.

ok, so here we go...

Yes I repair my own car
Yes I have good teeth
Yes I do most DIY
No I haven't used a solicitor other than buying my house and in most cases a solicitor is not as needed as hot water.

and you know why ? because I look after things, do a good job at the same time keep costs down for myself.

As far as a I am concerned, call out fees should only be charged for the petrol used and the time taken to come out, not a flat expensive rate.

If you must know my occupation it is technical support over the phone.

Yes i do understand that companies/people have to make money but there is no need to take the p*** with charges knowing that it is something people have got to pay or the go without. It is something that I think needs to be regulated a bit more.

Further more, if companies dropped their price then there would be no need to pinch pennies as you would get more customers. If this type of work was salary based then it would reduce the "rip off engineers" in the field. Don't tell me there is no such thing as I do watch programmes like watchdog, ferret etc etc and of course theres the lovely old internet where thousands of people complain about this sort of thing.


The reason I came on this site is to hopefully get some help from people who know what they are talking about, not to argue about charges.

Want to hear a good joke ?

A mates boiler broke down and an engineer was called out, not sure of the call out charge but he had to pay that plus the engineer wanted £500 to flush the system. £500 ? i could do that myself !


Anyway, I better not take anymore of your time or people might try and charge me !!

 

[cdg]

Now you've done it

 

[HarrogateGas]

A mates boiler broke down and an engineer was called out, not sure of the call out charge but he had to pay that plus the engineer wanted £500 to flush the system. £500 ? i could do that myself !

What your not telling us that the system was proberbly 20 rads, and sludged up to the eyeballs meaning 3 days worth of work to flush. Even is=f was a straight flush its £500 quoted, take it or leave it or get another quote.Whats the big deal?

Half the trouble with Corgi engineers getting a bad name is when the rip off merchants go to a customers house the customers are to naive to spot a ridiculous charge and question it meaning they get away with it.

 

[cdg]

True enough.

But... most people get ripped off when they're vulnerable - ie something is not working and is causing a problem so there is the time pressure.

Secondly, most people work and cannot arrange for lots of time off to get quotes/visits from multiple people and invariably go with the first (as long as he doesn't carry a swag bag).

How does Average Joe go about sorting the wheat from the chaff. As has been shown CORGI reg may not always mean much. I don't see too many members of IPHE and looking at their membership criteria it does not take too much to be an Associate or Member.

Do you know any FIPHEs? Does it matter if you are/aren't?

I work in a trade that is striving to get people recognised Professionally but in the main is B2B based and as such does not really matter. Professional recognition is more key when it's B2C and the C is Average Joe. If I go to a CEng, I know I'm going to pay a lot but I'm going to expect my work to be top notch.

Same with an ACCA, CIMA etc. People pay awfully large sums in garage repairs, heating, building, electrical and plumbing work but there is no clear path to see down to spot a dodgy un. Most of the letters after tradesman's names seem to refer to the qualifications rather than anything which would indicate quality/professionalism.

I had a reroof done a while ago and the cheapest quote was done by an FMB and Guild of Mastercraftsmen chap - superb work and service and half the price of some other - non accredited - chaps. Who'd have guessed it.

I'm rambling. The point is, people get stung. People are wary. But people don't necessarily have the right info to work off. Word of mouth? I've gone on this a few times and really got burned once.

It's a proper palaver.

 

[Softus]

It seems some companies actually use emergencies to make money than help out someone like myself.

I agree - it's absolutely shocking. What's worse is that doctors charge money to fix human bodies, and dentists too. Those transplant surgeons are the worst - charging a fee, after all that training and hard work, just to use a rare skill to save a life. I ask you.

Anyway, thanks for your help, looks like i'm going to have to call out someone and get myself further in debt.

Debt is a temporary condition - get yourself out of it using your brain and some hard work, not by bemoaning people who are earning a living.

If you want cheap or free "help" then you need to find a charity - don't engage a company or tradesperson.

How does Average Joe go about sorting the wheat from the chaff. As has been shown CORGI reg may not always mean much. I don't see too many members of IPHE and looking at their membership criteria it does not take too much to be an Associate or Member.

It's extremely simple and easy. Ask each person whose judgement you trust who they've used, and keep asking until you hear of someone who you can expect to do a good job for a fair price.

You could even plan ahead, and find yourself some reputable tradespeople before an emergency arises. Like registering with a doctors' surgery, for example, or, um, insuring your car, or buying travel insurance, or getting to know the local amenities when you move house, or countless other situations in life when you engage your brain to make your own life safer and/or easier.

Or you could wait for something to go wrong and then whinge like f*ck when you can't get it sorted very cheaply and very quickly.

 

[cdg]

Or you could wait for something to go wrong and then whinge like f*ck when you can't get it sorted very cheaply and very quickly.

I don't recall whingeing like f*ck. I was putting across an average view of how things simply are. And then, trying to find out what some of the reputable guys on here thought of professional accreditation. Perhaps you don't have a view on this because you have no accreditation. Or perhaps you still will even if you don't.

As I said, word of mouth is not always reliable. In this day and age too where a) people's mobility means they are not in one place more than a few months and b) where if you live in the south, no bu&&er talks to the other, word of mouth is still not a great alternative.

Personally, I have most bases covered but it's a damn sight harder than finding a reputable solicitor or arranging car insurance!

Now if you excuse me, my Powermax Range 140 has just gone into lock out and the missus wants to wash up.

 

[gloverd]

I agree - it's absolutely shocking. What's worse is that doctors charge money to fix human bodies, and dentists too. Those transplant surgeons are the worst - charging a fee, after all that training and hard work, just to use a rare skill to save a life. I ask you.

That's why the government charges me NHS fees !!

Debt is a temporary condition - get yourself out of it using your brain and some hard work, not by bemoaning people who are earning a living.

I'm not moaning about people making a living I am moaning about the charges "these people" think are acceptable for something that is a necessity.
Don't try and judge my debt situation without knowing me and why I'm in it and what i'm doing to get out of it ! one of which is saving money

If you want cheap or free "help" then you need to find a charity - don't engage a company or tradesperson.

lol what more can I say, do charities fix boilers for cheap or free ?

And there was me thinking that only registered engineers can fix boilers, have got the number of this charity ?



To be honest this thread has gone off topic, but it has proved what i've been saying all along, engineers don't give a toss about customers as long as the money keep coming in.
(I wonder why lot of customers don't return to that same company next time)


Well as I said I have to call a guy now so lets see how much he rips me off shall we just because I have to have hot water and the work by a so called "Professional". However I won't be calling him yet as I know you engineers love to inflate prices over weekends.

Don't even go there with well it's our weekend too, as you could simply not work weekends than charge a higher rate, and if you work weekends you could take 2 days off in week.

 

[Softus]

That's why the government charges me NHS fees !!

I'm not moaning about people making a living I am moaning about the charges "these people" think are acceptable for something that is a necessity.

So you've never bought drugs over the counter then? Or paid a dentist a private fee? Do you find it outrageous that you have to pay for those "necessities" (sic.)?

Don't try and judge my debt situation without knowing me and why I'm in it and what i'm doing to get out of it ! one of which is saving money

Exactly, but your way of saving money is to begrudge a charge levied by someone who is earning a living.

lol what more can I say, do charities fix boilers for cheap or free ?

I don't know - charities certainly do some things for free. Have you attempted to find out?

And there was me thinking that only registered engineers can fix boilers, have got the number of this charity ?

No. But why would such a charity, if it exists, not employ an RGI and do the job properly? Or is it that you distrust everyone and everything to do with fixing the things that you can't?

To be honest this thread has gone off topic, but it has proved what i've been saying all along

How can it be both off-topic and prove what you've been "saying all along"?

Engineers don't give a toss about customers as long as the money keep coming in.

That's a big brush you're using to make that sweeping generalisation. And it's a big pointy hat you're wearing that has "Dunce" written on it.

(I wonder why lot of customers don't return to that same company next time)

As an example of how easy it is to discredit that assertion, my plumbing customers come to me only by recommendation, since I don't advertise. You wouldn't qualify to become a customer, because you're attitude is all wrong. This might well be why you find it hard to find anyone reputable.

Well as I said I have to call a guy now so lets see how much he rips me off shall we just because I have to have hot water and the work by a so called "Professional". However I won't be calling him yet as I know you engineers love to inflate prices over weekends.

I see. How odd, then, that the invoice I've just sent, for an emergency callout to a leak at 15:30 today, was at the same rate as a booked job that I did yesterday afternoon.

Don't even go there with well it's our weekend too, as you could simply not work weekends than charge a higher rate, and if you work weekends you could take 2 days off in week.

That's right - it's well known that leaks occur only during the week. We just pretend that they happen at weekends so that we can miss the golf/football/racing/having a kip.

I say again:

 

[gloverd]

Softus there is no way you can justify high call out charges, in any field not just this one.

e.g
I took my car to a garage the other week because a pipe under the bonnet had been cut in half, he wanted to charge me £95 labour and £20 for the pipe. I said i'll come back, instead I went to scrap merchant who gave me the pipe free, fitted it myself and saved £115. How can he justify £95 labour to fit a pipe that took 3mins max ?

Although this is not the same as a boiler engineer, you still charge simply just to look without doing anything.

do you know me ? no, so don't call me a dunce !!, i have my field which i'm sure you can't do, give me a chance and I bet I can do your job. I am very competent in a lot of areas, car mechanics being an example.

If I was a plumber/boiler engineer I would simply say "yep that's how it is, not my fault, charges are not set by me and I agree they are high. Hope you can get it fixed soon though, best of luck".


But of course, no, this involves customer care/service !

Do you do customer service courses as well as the others ?


Yes i have paid for drugs or private dentist treatment but was nowhere £50 never mind over it like call out charges.


Attitude, I don't have an attitude, you come and fix my boiler for a reasonable price and i'll make you tea and biscuits free of charge. You seem to have taken my points personal which is not the intention of them.
I like DIY, I prefer to do things myself, i'm on s strict budge and was looking for advice, this turned into a rant about charges that people have taken wrong and closed ranks.

You want to discuss this then fine, but don't start personal insults, none of my posts insult anyone. Maybe some generalised comments regarding charges but not personal.

Furthermore, I am grateful for the advice some people have given and the answer to your question about flashing lights that I seemed to have missed is no, there is no flashing lights, just a solid red led as normal.

I by-passed the flow switch by bridging the contacts and all that does is turn the fan on. Theres a sensor or something on the CH pipe and if you bridge the contacts on that then you get a flashing light, 1 flash per second and that turns the fan on too.

 

[Softus]

I don't recall whingeing like f*ck.

That will be because you didn't. I didn't say you did, and I didn't mean to imply that you did. I was referring to the whinger on this topic.

Perhaps you don't have a view on this because you have no accreditation. Or perhaps you still will even if you don't.

Those are certainly two valid possibilities out of the whole permutation of valid possibilities.

As I said, word of mouth is not always reliable. In this day and age too where a) people's mobility means they are not in one place more than a few months and b) where if you live in the south, no bu&&er talks to the other, word of mouth is still not a great alternative.

That's a theory that is patently rubbish, from my point of view, because all of my plumbing customers - every single last man jack of them - come to me by word of mouth.

 

[Softus]

Softus there is no way you can justify high call out charges, in any field not just this one.

You're mistaken - I haven't made the slightest attempt to justify anything to you. If I had then you'd know about it.

something about cars that has nothing to do with plumbing or heating

How can he justify £95 labour to fit a pipe that took 3mins max ?

I don't know, I'm not a garage owner. Why you're not asking him, and are asking some anonymous plumbers, is completely beyond me.

Although this is not the same as a boiler engineer, you still charge simply just to look without doing anything.

Cue Agile...

do you know me ? no, so don't call me a dunce !!

Very well; I'll stop believing that you're a dunce when you stop behaving like one.

i have my field which i'm sure you can't do,

That's very unlikely, for many reasons, but especially since I already do your job.

give me a chance and I bet I can do your job.

Since you don't know what my job is, that's also very unlikely.

I am very competent in a lot of areas, car mechanics being an example.

Fair play - I can respect that.

If I was a plumber/boiler engineer I would simply say "yep that's how it is, not my fault, charges are not set by me and I agree they are high. Hope you can get it fixed soon though, best of luck".

Would you? Well I don't. My charges are set by me, and they are fair, competitive and profitable.

But of course, no, this involves customer care/service !

You're continuing to base a lot of assumptions on what appears to be a very narrow experience of plumbers and/or heating engineers. You're not the first to make this mistake, and you won't be the last.

Do you do customer service courses as well as the others ?

Since you aren't my customer, I decline to answer that question.

Yes i have paid for drugs or private dentist treatment but was nowhere £50 never mind over it like call out charges.

This just shows how little you know and how much you assume.

Attitude, I don't have an attitude, you come and fix my boiler for a reasonable price and i'll make you tea and biscuits free of charge.

You've missed my point - it's because of your attitude that I won't be coming anywhere near your house, whether it's to diagnose a boiler fault or to mend a leaking ball valve.

You seem to have taken my points personal which is not the intention of them.

No; I said that you were using a very large brush - your comments are general, and wildly so, and as such don't apply to a great many of forum members.

I like DIY, I prefer to do things myself, i'm on s strict budge and was looking for advice, this turned into a rant about charges that people have taken wrong and closed ranks.

I see. Do you actually know what it means to close ranks? Do you see anyone defending or supporting my posts?

none of my posts insult anyone.

Well I beg to differ, viz:

Please help I really don't like calling out engineer who charge the backside of you.

I could see them closing ranks, obviously they are people who charge quite high for what they do.
.
there is no need to take the p*** with charges knowing that it is something people have got to pay or the go without
.
Anyway, I better not take anymore of your time or people might try and charge me !!
.
I am moaning about the charges "these people" think are acceptable for something that is a necessity.
.
lets see how much he rips me off shall we just because I have to have hot water and the work by a so called "Professional".
.
However I won't be calling him yet as I know you engineers love to inflate prices over weekends.

 

[Agile]

I wonder what some of you would like us to charge?

We drive across London, get stuck in jams but dont charge for travelling. We only charge for diagnosing the fault which we usually fix for free plus the cost of parts. That seems very reasonable to me but you cannot please everyone.

Tomorrow, I am going to fix a Viessmann for a barrister, if she had to stay off work on a weekday she could lose £2000 in fees! We have the PCB and pump required for her boiler in stock!

Today I fixed a boiler for free. The maid for a Madam in Soho called me to say their boiler had failed and of course Saturday is their busiest night of the week. I could have gone there and charged a fortune! Instead I talked her through it and got it sorted completely free and she thanked me for my help.

I am a member of the IPHE which has a complaints procedure. The Fed of Master Builders charge about £250 a year to join but all they want is two reference names ( Brother and Mum will do ! )

Tony