Confirmed by the planning inspectorate, government guidance ..... or a bloke at a particular councils planning office?
would i need planning for velux cabrio windows?
- Thread starter zebbedy
- Start date
Confirmed by the planning inspectorate, government guidance ..... or a bloke at a particular councils planning office?
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Both wrong I believe
Various inspectorate decisions and case law have considered balconies, and what a balcony is. See previous post for definition of a balcony
There are various other tests .. one of which is "Is it development?" (under the TCPA 1990). Typically as this has no material effect on external appearance, then it would not be. The window itself is PD
Others are ...... "Is it a material alteration, does it create additional usable room, does it add volume to the property?". No on all counts
Then there is the question of "impermanence" - ie the limited time the window will be open and the railings extended ... so it wont be development
So the Cabrio does not meet the definition of a "balcony", and even in use with window open and railings extended it does not become development
Never take a planners word at face value. And Velux can't even name it correctly so what do they know about planning?
Various inspectorate decisions and case law have considered balconies, and what a balcony is. See previous post for definition of a balcony
There are various other tests .. one of which is "Is it development?" (under the TCPA 1990). Typically as this has no material effect on external appearance, then it would not be. The window itself is PD
Others are ...... "Is it a material alteration, does it create additional usable room, does it add volume to the property?". No on all counts
Then there is the question of "impermanence" - ie the limited time the window will be open and the railings extended ... so it wont be development
So the Cabrio does not meet the definition of a "balcony", and even in use with window open and railings extended it does not become development
Never take a planners word at face value. And Velux can't even name it correctly so what do they know about planning?
I'll be sure to print a copy of your post out ^woody^ to show the planners should I ever need to ,that will secure my CLD! 
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Hi Woody - we went for one of these Cabrios under PD and now have a letter from enforcement officer saying that in his opinion (interesting..) its not considered to be PD. He goes onto say we could try and apply for retrospective planning but in this instance he has concerns about the impact of neighbouring amenities
Thing is we are a fair way away from any neighbours and can certainly not see into their houses or any more into their gardens than we can from our first floor windows...
So can I send the enforcement chap round to you
I'm calling him today - will let you kow how we progress and thanks for all your comments in this post as I'm hoping they will be useful (and right!!)
Thing is we are a fair way away from any neighbours and can certainly not see into their houses or any more into their gardens than we can from our first floor windows...
So can I send the enforcement chap round to you
I'm calling him today - will let you kow how we progress and thanks for all your comments in this post as I'm hoping they will be useful (and right!!)
Hi all,
I know everyone's got a different opinion on Velux Cabrio Balcony System, but I think it's one of those things that could be argued either way. It's obviously not directly covered by the DCLG Technical Guidance, and I haven't seen any appeal decisions that have dealt with this particular issue.
If you were trying to argue that it's NOT PD, then you would have to argue that it falls within the scope of Class B (which contains restrictions against balconies), rather than Class C (which doesn't). This means arguing that it constitutes an "enlargement of a dwellinghouse", rather than "any other alteration", which means arguing that it should be assessed on the basis of its open state, rather than its retracted state. I think you could draw parallels to how a shop awning or a roller shutter normally constitute development on the basis of their open state, rather than their retracted state. You would also have to argue that the advice in the DCLG Technical Guidance that a juliette balcony doesn't constitute a "balcony" doesn't apply to a Cabrio Balcony - perhaps by drawing attention to the fact that the latter is designed to allow your upper body to be fully outside the envelope of the building.
If you were trying to argue that it IS PD, then you would either 1) accept that it falls within the scope of Class B but argue that it doesn't constitute a "balcony", or 2) argue that it falls within the scope of Class C. With regards to the latter, I think you could draw parallels to how a typical window or rooflight is normally assessed on the basis of its closed state, rather than its open state. For example, the fact that a typical rooflight would project more than 15cm from the plane of the roof slope when open wouldn't cause it to fail C.1(a) because it's accepted that it should be assessed on the basis of its closed state.
Thanks,
Steve
I know everyone's got a different opinion on Velux Cabrio Balcony System, but I think it's one of those things that could be argued either way. It's obviously not directly covered by the DCLG Technical Guidance, and I haven't seen any appeal decisions that have dealt with this particular issue.
If you were trying to argue that it's NOT PD, then you would have to argue that it falls within the scope of Class B (which contains restrictions against balconies), rather than Class C (which doesn't). This means arguing that it constitutes an "enlargement of a dwellinghouse", rather than "any other alteration", which means arguing that it should be assessed on the basis of its open state, rather than its retracted state. I think you could draw parallels to how a shop awning or a roller shutter normally constitute development on the basis of their open state, rather than their retracted state. You would also have to argue that the advice in the DCLG Technical Guidance that a juliette balcony doesn't constitute a "balcony" doesn't apply to a Cabrio Balcony - perhaps by drawing attention to the fact that the latter is designed to allow your upper body to be fully outside the envelope of the building.
If you were trying to argue that it IS PD, then you would either 1) accept that it falls within the scope of Class B but argue that it doesn't constitute a "balcony", or 2) argue that it falls within the scope of Class C. With regards to the latter, I think you could draw parallels to how a typical window or rooflight is normally assessed on the basis of its closed state, rather than its open state. For example, the fact that a typical rooflight would project more than 15cm from the plane of the roof slope when open wouldn't cause it to fail C.1(a) because it's accepted that it should be assessed on the basis of its closed state.
Thanks,
Steve
Whoever told you that was wrong. A Velux Cabrio window would fall under class C. The rules apply in its closed state - otherwise no opening roof window would comply. Therefore, if the window complies when closed (which it does) it is allowed under PD.
Hi All , Update , talked to me planning officer in Ealing and he confirmed that so long as the window doesn't project out more than 150mm ( which it does n't ) then it would be allowed under PD. It is not a balcony under any definition . It is a Velux window above the floor of the inside of the house . Can't wait until mine is installed on the front of my house which looks out onto Horsenden Hill ( and a few neighbours opposite ! ) Hope this clears this up and helps . Always best to confirm by email with your planning officer . Regards Robin
Presumably you mean 150mm from the roof when closed? 'Cos it obviously sticks out more than 6" when open.
yep..that's the criteria
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