Would you mind if a client wouldn't pay till job complete?

[ban-all-sheds]

The job would be completed aside from the issue of cert, schedule, CAD final floor plan.

Then it's not finished, but you do want complete payment.

London is unfortunately full of morally corrupt people, the only time I was knocked was by a Senior partner for a law firm who decided to discount my invoice by £1200. Reason?

So did you force him to pay by witholding the certificates?

Unfortunately that experience has led me to work to a fairly standard format (I'm not the only one that holds back certs etc) of witholding EIC until final payment made.

The last time I looked, NICIEC, at least, forbade their members from witholding certificates as part of a payment dispute.

And if you are notifying a job how do you get round the fact that you are telling LABC that you've complied with Part P via complying with BS 7671 when you've not complied with BS 7671?

What does BGI stand for

Bloody Good Idea.

 

[Chri5]

So did you force him to pay by withholding the certificates?

No the certs and paperwork were issued with the final invoice, that in part wasn't paid- Hence why I posted that I was knocked.

Hence why I'm more careful now

And if you are notifying a job how do you get round the fact that you are telling LABC that you've complied with Part P via complying with BS 7671 when you've not complied with BS 7671?

I have never since had an incident where final payment hasn't been made, so the paperwork has always been issued. So how am I not complying ?

Since this appears to be going round in circles, like a dog chasing it's own tail would you please inform me of the BaS methodology regarding payment.

Let's base it on a simple and quite common scenario:-

Multi property Landlord with Ltd set up.

Asks for £8k worth of work, £2000 materials and £6000 labour.

You complete in time and without any issue, he pays £6000 and then informs you (verbally) that he will not pay the rest because he thinks you did the work quicker than he expected.
There's no access to the property, so you can't remove materials (and if you did it's theft and or breaking / entering).

Small claims is useless because he is Ltd and will liquidate and rise (Phoenix like) from the ashes, so you won't get joy there.

He's a local hard man and has muscle based resources, so you won't get the satisfaction of breaking a few ribs.

So please inform me that other than doing a minor metaphorical arm twist by holding back on the paperwork issue, how would you get the lost £2000.

I'd add that after 3rd party labour costs that £2000 represents 75% of your profit, thus a £2000 knock is going to hurt you.

 

[comms]

So did you force him to pay by withholding the certificates?

No the certs and paperwork were issued with the final invoice, that in part wasn't paid- Hence why I posted that I was knocked.

Hence why I'm more careful now

And if you are notifying a job how do you get round the fact that you are telling LABC that you've complied with Part P via complying with BS 7671 when you've not complied with BS 7671?

I have never since had an incident where final payment hasn't been made, so the paperwork has always been issued. So how am I not complying ?

Since this appears to be going round in circles, like a dog chasing it's own tail would you please inform me of the BaS methodology regarding payment.

Let's base it on a simple and quite common scenario:-

Multi property Landlord with Ltd set up.

Asks for £8k worth of work, £2000 materials and £6000 labour.

You complete in time and without any issue, he pays £6000 and then informs you (verbally) that he will not pay the rest because he thinks you did the work quicker than he expected.
There's no access to the property, so you can't remove materials (and if you did it's theft and or breaking / entering).

Small claims is useless because he is Ltd and will liquidate and rise (Phoenix like) from the ashes, so you won't get joy there.

He's a local hard man and has muscle based resources, so you won't get the satisfaction of breaking a few ribs.

So please inform me that other than doing a minor metaphorical arm twist by holding back on the paperwork issue, how would you get the lost £2000.

I'd add that after 3rd party labour costs that £2000 represents 75% of your profit, thus a £2000 knock is going to hurt you.

I do the same as you issue certs on receipt of final payment, they hand me a cheque I hand them the certs.
As for the nic well they're not the ones holding the risk are they, so what they dont know wont hurt is my view.

 

[DESL]

With all due respect to BAS we sparks have to make a living.

I have terms and conditions that require (for large jobs) a deposit to cover materials and final payment on on completion.

I also reserve the the right to withold issue EIC and notification until funds have cleared my account. NB Local Trading Standards have seen my T&Cs and accept them.

I do have a reasonable tied down spec for the job with a project plan with timescales and of course contiguencies.

Luckily I have only had a couple difficult customers (both female) where the plan changed daily even after they had agreed the contract.

TBH they were trying to get extras for free.

One of them still hasn't had notification or EIC as a result of extras which were agreed in writing but disputed on submission of final invoice.

My action has been supported by my Registration body and Trading standards.

The amount in dispute is one days labour and when she paid £10k for the kitchen it gauls me.

 

[Chri5]

Thank you DESL, I'd still appreciate (in a friendly way) BaS's further opinion on how to encourage payment without cert being dangled as the inducement.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

No matter what the practical reality of the problem is the FACT is that the job is NOT FINISHED and COMPLETED to BS 7671 if you have not ISSUED the certificate.

So please inform me that other than doing a minor metaphorical arm twist

The fact that you use that term shows that you regard withholding the certificate as duress.

He's a local hard man and has muscle based resources, so you won't get the satisfaction of breaking a few ribs

And on reflection, if you really mean that you would otherwise consider adding violence to your methods of duress then maybe it would be best for you to find an alternative line of work.