YALE 6300 Alarm

[yaleguy3]

I have one of these systems and whilst I have not had a problem with communication, I do sometimes get an issue when entering the house with the house fully alarmed..I can't disarm the alarm until it has spotted us and the countdown started.

I do part set it at night and am able to disarm it without the need for it to spot us first...

I meant to look and find the reason for this but have now got used to it...

You should always use a door contact as your entry device thus always initiating the countdown.

It sound as though you have fitted your pir too high.
If you are in a victorian house with high ceilings you cannot put the pir right up against the ceiling.
It has to be between 1.75m(6ft) and 2.3m(7'6in) from the floor as the lens angle is predetermined.

 

[Alarm]

For Yale person.
At last Yale may be coming up to speed!
~You think we have not been up and coming in functions that you assume will work?
CCTV linked to the alarm, viewable on "smart phones" ?
The task of turning on heating or an oven, drawing the curtains/blinds, by a simple message again by a standard mobile phone?

As for the "novice advice", that is the way all GOOD DECENT systems work.
Look up and see the dual function of a detector. Yes Yale does this, but the average "engineer/monkey" does not understand this.


No doubt your an expert on a 6 zone panel.
Even my sons aged 8 ( 14 and 16 now, and told not to be like dad and be a Locksmith and Alarm/Fire/CCTV/Access Engineer) know how to programme a Galaxy GD-520.
Thats a touch screen panel with more singing and dancing with 520 (more if your smart) zones.
So please do not try and compare a piece of cheap ****e with pro kit.
You may sound good to yourself, thats about it.

Come to think about it. Fitting DIY tat and advertising as you do on here.Must breach trading standards.

As you do not fit "graded systems" AND BTW a system graded "2" as you say fitted by a non registered installer (SSAIB or NACOSS) is graded as 1.
AS in not worth a urine sample in a bucket.

You still have to pick up the ball, understand the rules and regulations.
Stop trying to make out you know the rules and regs, unless you have spent thousands with BSI and written a ISO document.

Tearing off the bottom of a Yale instruction sheet is not worth more than a piece of bog roll.

 

[Alarm]

Don't point the pir at the ceiling??

How patronising.

If the pir is sited on a wall between 1.75 and 2.3metres as per the instructions then it is set up correctly as the device is made to point down at the correct angle when flat against the wall.

It isn't one of these 'professional jobbies on a stalk that can end up pointing anywhere like on a neighbours house where the pro installer had pointed it at the floor meaning it only had a detection field of around 1m from its bracket point.

You quote from a book, not understanding the technology involved.
Tell us/me how a PIR works, a DT works. A siesmic detector works.
A Safe limpit................tell you what.
Stick with garden shed alarms and cheap tat.
Leave the sound solid advice to people who do this for a living.

 

[yaleguy3]

Alarm dear boy stop getting apoplectic you are becoming a characature of yourself , very one dimesional and extremely predictable.
Of course when I have had my YALE smartalarm training I will then join Nacoss and have my two inspected installations and become an approved installer.
The yale smart system isn't simply an access point for sms instructions but a fully programmable system also , I haven't got the fullblurb through yet but I do have the invite to the presentation.
And no I am NEVER comparing professional alarms with the YALE6200 6300 6400 kits and I have never ever suggested they are grade2 or insurance approved.
I am not advertising on here I am giving Do it Yourself advice on a do it yourself forum for people with do it yourself equipment.
As for trading standards...
Are you for real?
I have never presented the yale alarms as anything but what they are and have offered my knowledge and skills to people who know exactly what they are getting but don't have the time , patience , confidence or even a ladder to fit one themselves.

you have slung a load of insults around as usual ALARM . grow up.

 

[yaleguy3]

Don't point the pir at the ceiling??

How patronising.

If the pir is sited on a wall between 1.75 and 2.3metres as per the instructions then it is set up correctly as the device is made to point down at the correct angle when flat against the wall.

It isn't one of these 'professional jobbies on a stalk that can end up pointing anywhere like on a neighbours house where the pro installer had pointed it at the floor meaning it only had a detection field of around 1m from its bracket point.

You quote from a book, not understanding the technology involved.
Tell us/me how a PIR works, a DT works. A siesmic detector works.
A Safe limpit................tell you what.
Stick with garden shed alarms and cheap tat.
Leave the sound solid advice to people who do this for a living.

So how come you could not answer the question of why the keyfob wasn't unsetting the alarm other than to come out with your oft repeated cheat tat comment.

I know more about yale alarms than you and this thread was yale alarms questions but you barged in screaming cheap tat cheap tat and making yourself look a total plonker in the process.
I know how pirs work they have a fresnel lens that splits the heat signal up from radiated infra red light which enables the detection of movement to be simulated by the activation of sequential sensing according to a predetermined matrix. The sensors calibrate themselves to the ambient infra red signals they receive and only activate if a signal source of higher output is sensed usually equating to an 8degree celcius differential.

Dont know jack about double tremblers or siesmic whatevers but I DON'T work with them but who cares its about as relevvant as me playing guitar better than you or you being uglier than I am.

 

[Alarm]

Where should I start?
You admit no knowledge of types of detection.
Quote from a book or sheet about PIR`s.
Infact have not a clue about anything related to the industry you spout about.
NOT A CLUE!
Your explanation is close, for a cut and paste!

Your attempts to belittle me are an obvious sign of being not vrey smart (small words , so you can understand). I play Guitar and drums,3 other stringed instruments.
Not very well, but I attempt.
You state you know the cheap ****e well, yet struggle to assist members here.

how sad!

 

[bernardgreen]

the question of why the keyfob wasn't unsetting the alarm other than to come out with your oft repeated cheat tat comment..

One possible reason

If the user is holding down the button on the fob then its radio signal will be conflicting with the signal from the PIR sensor when the sensor is trying to tell the control panel it has detected movement. So neither the sensor nor the key fob can inform the control panel of the necessary information.

and only activate if a signal source of higher output is sensed usually equating to an 8degree celcius differential.

According to the manufacturer's they activate when the infra red image contains motion.

Are you perhaps confusing the 8 degrees with a rise of temperature in a hot spot heat detector as used in fire detection systems for detection of faults before they become a fire.

 

[Europlex]

Of course when I have had my YALE smartalarm training I will then join Nacoss and have my two inspected installations and become an approved installer.

Yea, my turn now.

How you going to do that then?

Could you please explain the above quote?

Those systems are NOT......, I'm not even going to go on

 

[yaleguy3]

Where should I start?
Quote from a book or sheet about PIR`s.
Your explanation is close, for a cut and paste!
You state you know the cheap s***te well, yet struggle to assist members here.

It is not cut and paste or quoted but directly from my head but you only believe what you want so I am wasting my grouped bitmapped pixels on you as usual.
How pathetic when someone answers a question you ask when you get the answer you didn't want to see you accuse them of cutting and pasting.

I hardly struggle to help members on here with the cheap s***te as you keep calling it. I only appeared on this thread because as usual when a yale thread comes up you bound in calling it crap without any knowledge of it in operation and without even having installed a single system.
All you so called experts have come up with nothing but gesswork and assumption in relation to the original posters questions and those of later posters.

 

[yaleguy3]

Of course when I have had my YALE smartalarm training I will then join Nacoss and have my two inspected installations and become an approved installer.

Yea, my turn now.

Could you please explain the above quote?

Those systems are NOT......, I'm not even going to go on

Again you have charged in in ignorance.
Wake up and smell the coffee..
YALE are releasing a GRADE 2 system imminently.. I being in the loop have in my inbox a picture of the new kit and an invite to the opening seminar.
It looks very swish and will definately be the most attractive panel when it hits the market.
I have yet to find out its technical spec but as grade 2 it will obviously be 880.
It has a very attractive graphite grey panel with blue led screen.
Can't wait.

 

[Europlex]

Can't wait.

Nor can we

 

[yaleguy3]

the question of why the keyfob wasn't unsetting the alarm other than to come out with your oft repeated cheat tat comment..

Suggestion 1
One possible reason
If the user is holding down the button on the fob then its radio signal will be conflicting with the signal from the PIR sensor when the sensor is trying to tell the control panel it has detected movement. So neither the sensor nor the key fob can inform the control panel of the necessary information.
Querry 1
According to the manufacturer's they activate when the infra red image contains motion.
Are you perhaps confusing the 8 degrees with a rise of temperature in a hot spot heat detector as used in fire detection systems for detection of faults before they become a fire.

Hi Bernard. I have more respect for you so I will answer your suggestions and questions as follows.
Again from my head and without cutting and pasting.

Your first suggestion seems very unlikely. If what you are saying is true then the alarm would never function properly and would be easy to defeat.
I am sure that when a signal is sent to the panel it doesn't then overide any other input or that would cause so many problems. I am pretty sure that because of the way the system works in so many other ways that the reciever continually polls any devices it has registered on board. As such I presume that signal sending devices do not send a continual signal but short bursts. You can see when you set the alarm with a remote keypad for example that the send light flickers indicating the signal is probably sent in bursts. Thus allowing the contnually polling reciever to continue to pick up signals from other devices.

In relation to your question about the 8 degree differential. This does relate to pir operation.

The sensor calibrates itself to the heat image it 'sees'
ie the empty room.

Then when a heat source enters the room it identifies the intruder.
For the sensor to pick up this heat image against the background it has calibrated itself to then there has to be a differential between the temperature of the intruder and the precalibrated background of around 8 degrees centigrade.
This is not measured with a thermometer but it is just a rough guide as to the temperature difference that is needed for the sensor to notice a difference.

Hypothetically if you heated a room up to 39.6 degrees centigrade the sensor would then not pick up a person entering the room.
Since most rooms are around 22 degrees even with central heating then the heat signature from a body is easliy enough to trigger the alarm.

What would happen if an intruder came in dressed in foil to hide his escaping heat I don't know but it would be interesting.

 

[bernardgreen]

I have deleted the un-helpful sarcasm I posted.

If two transmitters transmit at the same time neither will be received by the control panel if they are approximately the same power and propagation distance from the control panel.

I believe I read that the PIR sensors do NOT have a receiver so cannot be polled to transmit status one at a time. That the control panel detects a missing sensor ( or one un-able to transmit due to flat battery ) when it does not hear from that sensor fro more than a certain length of time.

If the sensors do have receivers then any attempt to introduce battery saving operation could introduce significant delay between detection of motion and the report of that detection reaching the control panel.

The most common way that PIR sensors work is as follows.

There are a number of lenses in the cover. These individually collect the "heat" energy from many narrow beams and concentrate it onto one of two sensors. ( as a magnifying glass can make a very hot image of the sun on a piece of paper ). The beams are divided between the two sensors. The difference in output of the two sensors is monitored and any significantly rapid change in this difference is the trigger for a the PIR to go into alarm state. A change in the differance between sensors occurs when a heat source moves from a beam focused onto sensor 1 to a beam focused onto sensor 2. The output from sensor 1 reduces and the output from sensor 2 increases. The inverse happens if a cold shadow moves from beam to beam but as it creates a change in difference between sensors a movement is detected. That is why cold but moving trees can trip a PIR sensor.

If the intruder wrapped in tin foil passes in front of any heat source then his or her "cold" but moving shadow could be detected.

 

[yaleguy3]

Can't wait.

Nor can we

Exactly . . of course this will be something you will then be hoping to test and install yourselves , you better start going back through all your posts and deleting all your anti yale propaganda.

 

[yaleguy3]

That is superb, perhaps if the blue led screen flashes in the same cadence as a police blue light beacon the criminals might be deceived into thinking the police have responded and that it is time to run away.[/quote
That is actually a great idea.
Say a flashing blue light is placed in the hallway fo a home activated when the alarm goes off it would indeed make intruders rush off.

Can we patent it together?