Yale or Respones wireless alarm??

[Europlex]

It's taken you since 01:05 to come up with that? You make me laugh, as usual you have no answer so off you go on a tangent.

By all means carry on thinking that I work for Europlex just like I don't think (know) you work for YALE.

I don't and you don''t.

I have had had experience with some of their control equipment at a VERY large retailer's numerous premises around the UK, sorry, England.

Of course you won't believe that either.

 

[yaleguy3]

Sorry Yaleguy3 but you now seem to be clutching at straws.
Local councils have "physically and permanently silenced" alarms that persistantly disturbed neighbours

You "own" this alarm but you do not know how to interpret the messageson the panel. Is it a poorly written manual or a lack of your attention to the matter.

Indeed but that is the council not neighbours smashing things up and stuffing them through the letterbox.

I myself was called out when one of my customers alarms was going off periodically.

I arrived to find the council team waiting to enter the property.
I disabled the system without entering the property (will not disclose method) . An external investigation revealled no obvious cause. I left my contact details and an explanation of my actions for the homeowners on return their holiday.
The council backed up my deactivation of the system to protect myself legally.

There had been no previous problems with this system while in regular use by the homeowners
My supposition is that in a rush to go on holiday the two ladies had left something switched on causing heat waves in the home , either an iron or a set of hair tongs etc.

Strangely the homeowners never contacted me on return perhaps fearing I would be stinging them with a perfectly reasonable call out charge.

But hey they also failed to respond to a reminder I sent out after 18 months suggesting they call me so I could arrange a battery change and system check.

That incidentally is the ONLY time I have ever been called by the council in relation to a noise issue with one of my alarms hence my trouble in believing Europlex's account.



As for the pro installed alarm issue - The professional alarm company did a two minute handover and left no manuals

 

[bernardgreen]

For one particular family I bought a battery holder from maplins and fitted that inside their fitted wardrobe and then wired out to the siren through the wall meaning they could change batteries easiliy without a ladder in sight.

Which is an admission that the system has room for improvement.

But that improvement does not remove the need for the owner to routinely check that the siren is able to make a lot of noise when it has to.

If the siren box could transmit a "battery low" signal to the mains (and battery backed up ? ) control panel then the owner would be notified by the control panel when there was a problem with the batteries.

Of course where the "control panel" is in the siren that is not an option. Also the loss of a sensor from the system can only be "discovered" by looking at the siren on the wall if there is no control panel in the building.

I accept that the ease of install makes wireless linked alarms attractive to many DIYers and in some cases they are suitable for the application. But that said the short comings of the system and the consequential responsibility of the owner to carry out routine manual testing must be pointed out clearly to the user and the user must be aware that he or she has to continue to carry out those tests if the alarm is to continue to be effective.

 

[yaleguy3]

Indeed Bernard and I can assure you everyone I install for is made acutely aware of how the system works and how to maintain it.

There is also a very easy system test even for owners without a control panel.

each device , pir , door contact , smoke alarm has a small button on the sensors exterior. This is the button you press when learning or enrolling devices into the system.

However just like testing a smoke alarm by pressing the button you can test your alarms is working correctly by pressing the button on the sensor.

The system does not have to be in any special mode or status you can do this check anytime at all when your system is disarmed.

This sends a signal to the siren and the siren beeps to confirm it has received the signal.

Its a very very easy test as all sensors are within physical reach.
It takes about ten minutes to do this test of a full alarm.

This test easily proves the system is operating correctly.
It proves the sensors are enrolled into the system and can transmit to the siren and it proves the siren can detect the signals.

Its the equivalent of a walk test in a panel controlled system

 

[oasistechnical]

we are listed with four local councils for alarm response (faulty ones) and we have never had to enter a property to disconnect the siren.

all we do is get an official works order from them (faxed to office)
we meet with the environmental health officer on site (and or police)
we disconnect the external siren unit
replace cover and sign off the works

we have never had to enter a property to do this, it is classed as trespass

and we dont do that!!

legally covered via documentation issued by the local authority environmental officers, and ourselves, we also leave our contact details for the client, (and we have had many many call backs to sites by the clients to re instate and check there systems)

so you saying that an officer of the council removed and damaged the external siren, then posted it thru there door, what a load of carp!!!

that is a CRIMINAL OFFENSE !!
even for the local authority.

Oasis

 

[oasistechnical]

we are listed with four local councils for alarm response (faulty ones) and we have never had to enter a property to disconnect the siren.

all we do is get an official works order from them (faxed to office)
we meet with the environmental health officer on site (and or police)
we disconnect the external siren unit
replace cover and sign off the works

we have never had to enter a property to do this, it is classed as trespass

and we dont do that!!

legally covered via documentation issued by the local authority environmental officers, and ourselves, we also leave our contact details for the client, (and we have had many many call backs to sites by the clients to re instate and check there systems)

so you saying that an officer of the council removed and damaged the external siren, then posted it thru there door, what a load of carp!!!

that is a CRIMINAL OFFENSE !!
even for the local authority.

Oasis

 

[yaleguy3]

Indeed Bernard and I can assure you everyone I install for is made acutely aware of how the system works and how to maintain it.

There is also a very easy system test even for owners without a control panel.

each device , pir , door contact , smoke alarm has a small button on the sensors exterior. This is the button you press when learning or enrolling devices into the system.

However just like testing a smoke alarm by pressing the button you can test your alarms is working correctly by pressing the button on the sensor.

The system does not have to be in any special mode or status you can do this check anytime at all when your system is disarmed.

This sends a signal to the siren and the siren beeps to confirm it has received the signal.

Its a very very easy test as all sensors are within physical reach.
It takes about ten minutes to do this test of a full alarm.

This test easily proves the system is operating correctly.
It proves the sensors are enrolled into the system and can transmit to the siren and it proves the siren can detect the signals.

Its the equivalent of a walk test in a panel controlled system.


The battery box inside the home simple negates the need for a ladder to swap the batteries.

 

[yaleguy3]

we are listed with four local councils for alarm response (faulty ones) and we have never had to enter a property to disconnect the siren.


so you saying that an officer of the council removed and damaged the external siren, then posted it thru there door, what a load of carp!!!

that is a CRIMINAL OFFENSE !!
even for the local authority.

Oasis

I never said that it was europlex's neighbours that did that apparently.
Europlex brought up the story about complaints to the council and the siren being stuffed through the letterbox.
I hope the neighbours were aware that by smashing up the alarm as well as criminal damage they would have been liable had the home been subsequently burgled.

 

[Europlex]

we are listed with four local councils for alarm response (faulty ones) and we have never had to enter a property to disconnect the siren.


so you saying that an officer of the council removed and damaged the external siren, then posted it thru there door, what a load of carp!!!

that is a CRIMINAL OFFENSE !!
even for the local authority.

Oasis

I never said that it was europlex's neighbours that did that apparently.
Europlex brought up the story about complaints to the council and the siren being stuffed through the letterbox.
I hope the neighbours were aware that by smashing up the alarm as well as criminal damage they would have been liable had the home been subsequently burgled.

Well, you make your choice, you take your chance, not much different to the chap with a shotgun a few months ago.

Don't read the papers or watch the news then do you.

That sort of response (no pun intended) has been around since alarms came to the fore.

As regards the silencing of alarms for the Council or Police again something that is done on a regular basis.

Entry or removal of sounder is never done without the presence of a Council official or a Police officer with the relevant written request.

Were not talking about doing it officially, that's covered, I mentioned what a member of the public did off their own bat. I'm neither condoning or condemning how this was done, but it did have the required result.

 

[Alarm]

1- No we don't have a manual and no I can't train the staff because all we got as a handover was a 1minute demonstration that basically went 'this is how you set the alarm put your code in and then press A' 'This is how to unset your alarm put your code in and then press Ent' We weren't even told the entry exit delay.
Want a manual? want me to come and train you? Sounds like a Galaxy to me.
2- No the staff were locking up at 8pm and they could not get the alarm to set.
I asked them to lock the doors and I got the keyholders to attend to reset the alarm
ahh so your fault your getting a chargeable call out
Strangely despite being a monitored system and staff saying they had previously had trouble setting it the monitoring station never called to say they were picking up fault codes.
Mains fail when unset gives a local indication only, a fail to set will not be sent either.
3- Yes a power cut causing a system to need a reset is indeed the alarm companies fault. It is designed to continue through power loss for a period isn't it? You tell me it's the fangled pro kit you know so much about after all.
Yes it will run during a ower fail, a fail before set will give a fault message and dependant on the grade may require an engineer. However I believe your staff have no idea of how to reset an "alert", See above for training.
4- The system is a grade 3 system due to the landlords insurance companies wishes hence no yale system.
Ahh G3 see above.

The yale system can indeed keep a log of user actions so owners would be able to view the log to see what time a user had deactivated the system and yes this means for example working parents would be able to see what time their offspring had left for school and come home again.
No I meant real time notification, not after the event logs

oh and OMG Alarm you have found the achilles heel of the yale alarm it cannot be set to automatically set and unset itself . . but it actually does not need to as its a domestic alarm not a commercial one.
Now your not being totally honest, they have more than one.

You can set and unset the 6400 remotely using your mobile phone though . . how many grade 2 systems have you fitted this week with that very useful facility?[/quote]A few can actually, not a good idea though. hence auto sets. With pre arm warnings. You set via mobile and someones in the property your having a false alarm.


That should cover things for the time being.
By all means PM me for advice on the "Galaxy" which is what I assume you have fitted. I would be delighted to assist with training and or the correct manuals you require.
If ti is not a Gal, I can still assist.
Tell you what if its close to where I am in the near future i`ll even do it for free.
Failing that, approach the installing company and request an engineer reattends and make it clear the demo was not sufficient. However that should have been noted at the time and the handover documents not signed if people were not happy.

 

[yaleguy3]

I am gobsmacked thats an incredibly kind offer thank you for your offer.

However I am actually going to get some responsibility from the alarm installers though as we only rent the property and the alarm comes as part of the infrastructure we did not pay for the install just its upkeep.
however the original installer other than coming out to fix problems doesn't seem keen to have a maintainance contract as I have been chasing for this for some time only to get the response that they will get back to me and never do.
Perhaps they don't want to take over the hybrid system they have created with old wiring and some new bits.

 

[Alarm]

Are you saying there is no contract in place?

 

[oasistechnical]

monitored system with no contract + national installer ?
not going to happen, its a requirement of the inspectorates / insurance company that the system is covered by an full maintenance / monitoring agreement.

Oasis

but personally i dont think the system exists. but that is just my opinion, then again i could be wrong, but the person whao is posting about it will say thats its there and its causing problems, but how are we to know.
(but as you say alarm, it appears to be our panel of choice tho)

 

[Alarm]

monitored system with no contract + national installer ?
not going to happen, its a requirement of the inspectorates / insurance company that the system is covered by an full maintenance / monitoring agreement.

Oasis

but personally i dont think the system exists. but that is just my opinion, then again i could be wrong, but the person whao is posting about it will say thats its there and its causing problems, but how are we to know.
(but as you say alarm, it appears to be our panel of choice tho)

Agreed no contract = no URN= No police response.
Why I mentioned it.

PS to shut downs of runaways.
Used to contract to local authority as well.
Some would have running internals too, which had to be shut down.
Noise abatement officer would attend, then ring local duty magistrate.
Warrant issued, Police and Abatement officer attend.
I arrive, open locks (Locksmith too remember). Shut down alarm and internals.

So it is not trespass with a warrant.

Poor householder had a big bill though. New locks ( If could not be picked, and often was told to open with destruction for speed). Call out for locksmith and locks and shutdown. Abatement officers costs ( Hourly rate, cost of warrant). And all generally down to systems not maintained correctly.

 

[yaleguy3]

I obviously need to dig some more to get to the bottom of this.

The alarm is monitored for contracted keyholders to attend.
There is no requirement for police response.
The property belongs to the local council who have let the place out to someone else who have let the property to us.

The FM services are my responsibility and so I need to drag the alarm company kicking and screaming to see if they are going to take responsibility for it.

I may be wrong maybe there is a contract already in place with the owners. However we are the ones who need to keep the logs for the fire and emergency lighting and noone is coming back to us. I will chase again right now.

BTW just looked at the endstation and its a galaxy 264 with a dedicated redcare line and a seperate digicom box by the looks of it.