Young to pay higher taxes to fund women who retired early

[motorbiking]

Me too.

Makes a mockery of mbk post. Not understanding the issues.

And those who can’t retire at 66 have to pay?

Seems fair ?

 

[Mottie]

The information was public knowledge, and people buried their heads in the sand.
But that's what people DO.

Mrs Mottie was walking with friends yesterday and talking about this. One of them, aged 56, thought she would get her state pension at 60. I kid you not. She was shocked when she was told it would probably be 67 for her.

 

[diy_fun_uk]

As with many (most?) things in life, there's a degree of self responsibility here, and btw I'm not saying I'm any better/worse at it than the average person. When I say self responsibility I mean in terms of finding out about the matter at hand, doing some investigation. For example the person referred to above who thought the state pension age was still 60.

OT but to make my point, it's a bit like when watching QT and an audience member will say of the political parties 'we know nothing about your plans, your policies, anything, it's pathetic!'

Cue round of applause. I sit there thinking whilst the info itself might be a load of bull, has that person actually been on the party websites and done a general web search to try and find out this information.

I'm not referring to the topic of this thread, if there have been failings identified that's a different matter. I'm making a broader point.

 

[Fred Blogs]

So glad I took early retirement from from my civil service job, that I had grown to hate, at 55. Had to do a few menial jobs till I hit 60 when my army pension,my civil service pension and my state pension kicked in. Haven't looked back since and I'm 73 and still going strong. Wife's state pension kicked in when she was 65 and she is now 73 and still going strong, happy days unfortunately you have to be old to enjoy those days.

 

[ellal]

But on the radio today, one was claiming that she was in poverty because she chose to retire at 50, without realising she would not get a state pension until years later. I'm sorry but most people in work today, will not have the chance to retire at 50 and most people would do their homework before retiring to check how much money they had vs needed.

I think the point that many are missing is not the fact that the pension age was changed, it was that people that it affected weren't informed by DWP...

And of course after a lengthy inquiry which has cost a hell of a lot, there is nothing legally binding...

So the can will get kicked down the road until most of those who have been wronged have kicked the bucket!

 

[JonathanM]

I think the point that many are missing is not the fact that the pension age was changed, it was that people that it affected weren't informed by DWP...

Have the DWP admitted this? I am sure I have had letters from time to time which mention what my retirement age is. Although, nothing that explicitly said "WARNING!! YOUR PENSION AGE IS CHANGING" as far as I can remember. I was just reading some research from 2018 by the LSE which said there have been public information campaigns and that the vast majority of women (more than 80%) were aware of the changes. The suggestion that every woman should be given compensation sounds like a scattergun approach.

 

[ellal]

Have the DWP admitted this?

"A comprehensive investigation by the Parliamentary and Health Service Ombudsman has found that thousands of women may have been affected by DWP’s failure to adequately inform them that the State Pension age had changed"

"We looked at DWP’s communication about changes to State Pension age and the number of National Insurance qualifying years needed for a new State Pension. We also looked at DWP and the Independent Case Examiner’s (ICE) complaint handling.

Our investigation found maladministration. This means an organisation doing something wrong, not acting properly or providing poor service"

Nothing to do with what the DWP admits or not, they have been found out to be in the wrong by both parliament and the inquiry...

Or because they haven't offered an apology, do you not accept the results?

 

[noseall]

70 is the new 65. Got to be a good thing surely?
I'm a forever pragmatist.

 

[Brigadier]

Off topic, but I remember getting letters from my mortgage provider, telling me that my endowment mortgage was in danger of shortfall.
This was when the growth bands were reduced from 10% / 7.5% / 5%, to 8% / 6% / 4%, or something like that.

Presumably, the government told the mortgage providers to do this?
Whereas the government didn't tell itself to do the equivalent, with regards to pensions?

 

[JonathanM]

"A comprehensive investigation by the Parliamentary and Health Service Ombudsman has found that thousands of women may have been affected by DWP’s failure to adequately inform them that the State Pension age had changed"

Thanks for the link, that's just what I wanted. This page makes a very interesting read. The impression I got from the news reports was that the DWP had done nothing. But actually it looks like they were very much engaged and did make substantial efforts. The main thing they didn't do, though, is the most obvious i.e. write to each woman and tell them the pension age was changing!!! They seem to be blaming that on not having the information they required in a "robust" enough form until 2009. It looks like they did write to all the women affected after 2009.

What did happen | Parliamentary and Health Service Ombudsman (PHSO)

What did happen 74. Here we consider the various steps DWP took to communicate changes to State Pension age. We then go on to consider the research conducted by and on behalf of DWP and the actions it took following that research.

www.ombudsman.org.uk

• running pensions education campaigns, which included information about State Pension age equalisation
• publishing ‘numerous’ leaflets from 1995 onwards
• making State Pension age clear in the 22 million State Pension statements issued online, by post or over the telephone since 1995
• issuing around 17.8 million automatic pension forecasts (APFs) between 2003 and 2006 with a leaflet explaining the increase in State Pension age for women
• making information about State Pension age available on its website, including an option for individuals to calculate their State Pension age
• writing to 1.2 million women affected by the Pensions Act 1995 between 2009 and 2011, and those affected by the Pensions Act 2011 between January 2012 and November 2013.

 

[JonathanM]

Having said that:

DWP has also told us that individualised letters are not the most effective way of communicating information about changes to State Pension age. It has drawn attention to a research pilot done in 2014 showing just under half of people who had received a direct-mail letter remembered getting it. Of those who recalled receiving the letter, just over half said they had read all or some of it.

 

[JonathanM]

Maybe if the letter had come in a specially designed envelope saying "YOUR PENSION AGE IS CHANGING" that would help. I don't know if it did. But if it came in a generic DWP brown envelope I can imagine many not getting the hoped for attention.

 

[motorbiking]

I don't recall HMRC telling me that the tax rules are changing each year or that I am losing my personal allowance or that I now have to pay another 5% tax on a lower threshold.

The obligation is either on the state to inform us on everything or the citizen to find out?

Why are these Women special and why should everyone else fund them?

As far as I can work out women aged 40 and Younger were told of the changes - with 20 years notice

Pensions Act 1995

www.legislation.gov.uk

Pensions Act 2011

www.legislation.gov.uk

 

[JonathanM]

The obligation is either on the state to inform us on everything or the citizen to find out?

Why are these Women special and why should everyone else fund them?

As far as I can work out women aged 40 and Younger were told of the changes - with 20 years notice

Apparently there are still women working who believe the state pension age is 60. Maybe it's just really hard to overturn such ingrained beliefs.

 

[Justin Passing]

That's what I explained above. People really are that "difficult to deal with".
They won't believe it's not 60 because that would mean they would have no money - therefore you, who are telling the person that, must be wrong.

Of course words like dumb or stupid get used. but it's part of the human condition. There's probably a legal term for the extra dilligence which has to be expended, beyond the mere factual or logical passing of information,. to confirm that the meaning and its consquences really are clear and undoubted in the mind of the receiver.
There IS a legal acceptance, such as where unreasonable terms buried in "small print" can be deemed invalid.
Mbk - Do you know a technical term for that?

Any landlord will have come across it, depending on the "type" of tenant.
Landlord says "You cannot dry clothes in the flat because the humidity will be damaging. This is a condition of your taking the tenancy. You can use the tumble dryer provided"
Tenant says, "But I need to dry clothes."
Landlord: "you must not dry clothes in the flat. There is a tumble dryer."
Tenant: "I need to dry my clothes. I don't like the tumble dryer / can't afford to use it. I don't like the launderette / Can't afford it"
Landlord :"You cannot dry clothes in the flat.
Your being a tenant here is contingent on your not drying clothes in the flat"
Tenant :"But I need to dry clothes in the flat. You are being unreasonable because I'm a <<insert oppressed minority classification here>>.".