Zimbabwe

[pipme]

A retiree / exile to Saudi Arabia, now deceased.

.....subsisting on a government stipend. The new Ugandan government chose to keep him exiled....

 

[Moz]

How refreshing to see a thread on Africa withOUT the usual snipes/rants that we are RASCIST

In the 70s I was in South Africa ,staying with my uncle who was a Mine Manager ,apartheid was alive an well ......
My Uncle worked up in Rhodesia,His firm was a very progressive firm for the day,who tried too train the black workers in skilled trades ...they didnt want to know /care ... they enjoyed manual work an shift work ,
My uncle even had to threaten workers with the sack to get them to train up ,in workshop work ,away from the pit face work ...

In the end his firm went bust when contract work was given to less progressive firms , If you ask my uncle if the black man wants EU help he will tell you NO,they have never known any better than a shanty town life ...but what he needs is enforced condom wearing ,lol

I think Africa needs UN management not Tinpot dictators

 

[Able]

There's justification for the taking out of Sadam and there's justification for taking out Mugabe - but George Bush hasn't told us to do it and won't help with the money. Zimbabwe was the bread basket of Africa, it doesn't look much like R M's clearing slums on the news footage to me.

re Galtieri.
A tramp goes into a London boozer. The Landlord looks at him with comtemt and says "What do you want?". Tramp says "Mmmm..."

Landlord says "You can have a beer then oppit".

Tramp says " Mmmm.." and nods his head. Tramp drinks the beer and the landlord says "Lost your voice then?"

Tramp says "Mmmm.. Ffffalklands" and shows a neck scar.
Landlord says "you were in the Falklands war?" Tramp says"Mmmm.." and nods.

Landlord rings the bar bell and says "Listen up people we have a war hero here, who's fallen on hard times. I'm going to pass the hat round and I want you to give generously!"

A little time later the landlord give the content of the hat to the tramp and say "Here you are mate we collected eighty quid".

Tramp says "Mmmm...muchos gracias".

 

[felix]

tried too train the black workers in skilled trades ...they didnt want to know /care ... they enjoyed manual work an shift work

Interesting bit of info there from Moz. This kind of observation invariably leads to accusations of racism which is most unhelpful if it happens to be true. If nobody dares mention a real problem there will never be a solution.

I recall something from a TV series The Road to Riches which seems to support Moz's theory. In some Southern African village there stood an empty factory. The local farmers grew cashew nuts. Now these can fetch a good price but only after they've been removed from their shells and the factory had been built for this purpose. There was no shortage of willing workers and yet the factory stood empty. The nuts were sold cheap and shipped off to India to be shelled by hand. The presenter just had to find out why.

The problem, if I remember rightly, was that there were no managers. They all wanted to work in the factory but not one of them had the slightest idea how to actually run it! To us, the obvious solution would be education but Moz's experience suggests that it might not be that simple.

 

[Stoday]

This idea that's put around in the last couple of posts, that Africans are disinclined to be managers, just is not true.

I know a number of black africans here and in the USA who are perfectly capable of managing a business. I just cannot believe that the same capability does not exist in Africa itself. Maybe there is another issue that makes them appear incapable.

 

[pipme]

One requires workers willing to be managed .... They gotta wanna !!
Can education alone provide the desire?
Makes one wonder about the old chestnut of "Over education.." Who for? Western kids? ... Ok, then what about the African for example? How to use a spade or plough .... Where to draw the line?

What if the culture of a particular race or nation is such that in the struggle for survival they may normally be expected to naturally die out?

Is it right to intervene? Is it right not to?

Who chooses method of intervention -- when,how and by which set of standards in the best interests of the people involved?
What if their best interests demands laws adverse to other nations? More protectionism?

So many questions, where are the real answers? Are there real answers?

Why in hell are there such attempts to make us feel guilty? I am sure it was not MY ancestors who ripped off the colonies, they were more than likely 'ripped' themselves.

 

[felix]

I know a number of black africans here and in the USA who are perfectly capable of managing a business

A pertinent observation there from Stoday.

Maybe there is another issue that makes them appear incapable.

The words "here and in the USA" are a clue. I've occasionally asked myself the question "How to you make a manager?" and I keep coming up with the same answer. You can't make a manager, any more than you can make an artist or an engineer. They have to be born but even that isn't enough. They have to be given the opportunity to develop whatever it is they were born with. (Oops! Never use a preposition with which to end a sentence!)

When I was on the dole I applied for loads of engineering type jobs. I got a few interviews but, to my surprize, I was rarely asked any technical questions. It seemed to me that most of those companies were only interested in salesmen and managers! We have a tradition of encouraging managers in this country - pity we don't do the same for engineers - and I'm sure the USA is the same but what about Africa?

Could it be that Moz's uncle got his black workers too late? Did they grow up with the idea that the white man gives the orders and the black man does the work? A manager's lot is not always a happy one and there are easier ways of earning a living. If you're used to manual work - even if it's dirty and/or dangerous - and the pay is good why change the habit of a lifetime? Better the devil you know. Hands up all those managers who wish they'd never left the shop floor!

My uncle even had to threaten workers with the sack to get them to train up

Moz, I believe it. It can happen here too. In one place I worked my boss told us how he moved from Development Engineer to Department Manager. His boss made him an offer he couldn't refuse:

"We're creating a new department and we need somebody to run it. You can take the job or you can collect your P45"!!!!!

 

[Moz]

I still am very BITTER /TWISTED ...that I went to help the black man (sorry will drop coloured as that is not allowed now, )

An they SHAT on me ... an many others ,an just lived to a rotten life an spewed out aids ridden kids ..

Why should a man work when Many Wife/lowly women can work quicker ..

Black African men are their worst enemy ...

I was in floods of tears last night watching that african lady that bob (maybe cynical for his RC Sainthood ,he wants as Mum Terersa ,another glory hunter !)wheeled out she was helped from Live Aid ,
that was beautiful ....so chocked caught not breathe ,lol
I met so many wonderful African coloureds /black people who wanted help but were held back an the old African story is ...
"WHY DO YOU THINK WHITE MAN HELPS ..YOU ARE SLAVE "

sorry just had to post I tried way before saint bob an failed ..
they NEED /WANT to CHANGE an NOT RELIE on AID