Thanks.
It's a sad (in some senses!) fact that, in so many professions and occupations, 'doing well' so often involves moving away from 'real work' and spending much of one's life behind a desk, clipboard or whatever.
Kind Regards, John.
So who are electricians?
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Kind Regards, John.
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Thanks. I might have got that slightly wrong, since my recollections are of seeing you mainly talking about the meters, so I probably had the idea that such was most of your life.Employed electrician, mainly install dairy equipment but a lot of other comercial stuff as well. Thought i was good enougth fot 2391 but reality hit when i tried a few mock exams, working hard on PIR's now. Our company also have a contract fitting smart meters, so i travel arround a lot doing that. DNO authorised to enter cutouts
Kind Regards, John.
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Having read the others I am surprised at some of the replies in both directions.
I was until I took my 2391 and 2381 rather meek and willing to accept it when others told me I was wrong.
po bodies nerfect and we must all listen in case we have made an error but as I studied the regulations moving to 2392 I realised that common sense however rare must prevail and the more I learn as to how it should be done the more I questioned the advice given.
And it seems it is those who consider themselves as semi-qualified who in the main seem to give out the best advice.
I am sure I lost one job through being too pedantic. It is easy to quote regulations and law. But what is needed is common sense.
I think the mixture on here gives a good balance between the two and although some times I strongly disagree with BAS I would not want him to stop posting as he also has some very good points.
But not sure if knowing the back ground helps. I find people will back down once they find I have a degree but in real terms although it may have taught me how to do the complex maths it does not mean I get the sums right or that I have any better knowledge of the regulations to a guy who has just studied the BS7671.
Although now I have the bits of paper today I am not working. In the past I was lacking most of the paper work but at least I was employed. Yes I made mistakes but in the main I got things running.
Put yourself in same position I guess most would work it out. Two new concrete presses, software guy installed PLC and written basic program so we could test items but not a running program. He has heart attack not dead but unable to visit site. Mechanical side contracted day rate until running but sat on their backsides as no program written.
Believe me steep learning curve. But two weeks latter it was up and running with 2000 step program. Necessity is the mother of invention. It took another two months to iron out all the problems but the machine once the slight corrections were made was producing a washing machine weight every 12 seconds.
After that I have not had a job to tax me in the same way. OK at that time I was only into programming man machine interface and only later did I learn how to use SCARDA but really do need SCARDA? Looks good but does not make the machine run any better just shows us what it is doing.
It was the drives which really got me. Seems every one is different does not matter how well you learn how to program one make it doe not help you program the next. I would say SWF likely the best but also not cheap.
However most house bashers what I have said will go right over their heads. Most complex is likely the old central heating boiler and remembering the Y plan. But could I keep up with them rewiring a house. No way. Yes I can do it but not as quickly as required.
OK we look at a job. Supply to a machine approx 100 foot and 32A three phase. Very few electricians will sit down and work out the size of cable. What we do is think I remember doing a similar job and the 6mm was only just good enough I'm playing safe and using 10mm. When finished we find how close we were but there were no calculators or slide rules used it was just experience.
How can we show our experience? As a foreman for two years I learn more than 10 years on the tools as I was involved with every problem and waisted no time on run of the mill things.
Working abroad again steep learning curve. I need a xxx reply I don't care what you need fix it. And I did even if it did not comply with BS7671. So it was for a Chev Blazer but it kept our beef frozen so did it matter? At least we did not go short of food.
I was until I took my 2391 and 2381 rather meek and willing to accept it when others told me I was wrong.
po bodies nerfect and we must all listen in case we have made an error but as I studied the regulations moving to 2392 I realised that common sense however rare must prevail and the more I learn as to how it should be done the more I questioned the advice given.
And it seems it is those who consider themselves as semi-qualified who in the main seem to give out the best advice.
I am sure I lost one job through being too pedantic. It is easy to quote regulations and law. But what is needed is common sense.
I think the mixture on here gives a good balance between the two and although some times I strongly disagree with BAS I would not want him to stop posting as he also has some very good points.
But not sure if knowing the back ground helps. I find people will back down once they find I have a degree but in real terms although it may have taught me how to do the complex maths it does not mean I get the sums right or that I have any better knowledge of the regulations to a guy who has just studied the BS7671.
Although now I have the bits of paper today I am not working. In the past I was lacking most of the paper work but at least I was employed. Yes I made mistakes but in the main I got things running.
Put yourself in same position I guess most would work it out. Two new concrete presses, software guy installed PLC and written basic program so we could test items but not a running program. He has heart attack not dead but unable to visit site. Mechanical side contracted day rate until running but sat on their backsides as no program written.
Believe me steep learning curve. But two weeks latter it was up and running with 2000 step program. Necessity is the mother of invention. It took another two months to iron out all the problems but the machine once the slight corrections were made was producing a washing machine weight every 12 seconds.
After that I have not had a job to tax me in the same way. OK at that time I was only into programming man machine interface and only later did I learn how to use SCARDA but really do need SCARDA? Looks good but does not make the machine run any better just shows us what it is doing.
It was the drives which really got me. Seems every one is different does not matter how well you learn how to program one make it doe not help you program the next. I would say SWF likely the best but also not cheap.
However most house bashers what I have said will go right over their heads. Most complex is likely the old central heating boiler and remembering the Y plan. But could I keep up with them rewiring a house. No way. Yes I can do it but not as quickly as required.
OK we look at a job. Supply to a machine approx 100 foot and 32A three phase. Very few electricians will sit down and work out the size of cable. What we do is think I remember doing a similar job and the 6mm was only just good enough I'm playing safe and using 10mm. When finished we find how close we were but there were no calculators or slide rules used it was just experience.
How can we show our experience? As a foreman for two years I learn more than 10 years on the tools as I was involved with every problem and waisted no time on run of the mill things.
Working abroad again steep learning curve. I need a xxx reply I don't care what you need fix it. And I did even if it did not comply with BS7671. So it was for a Chev Blazer but it kept our beef frozen so did it matter? At least we did not go short of food.
Electrician of 23 years. 8 years contracting. Spent 12 years in a factory as maintenance electrician - nearly made it to Electrical Engineer (the boss) but the structure was altered and my HND was cancelled This was a good job and opened my eyes to the real electrical world of PLCs, invertors, motors, induction heating, etc etc
When that all went tits up (I refused to be TUPE'd) I started work as electrical technician at a college where I still am.
This was a good job and opened my eyes to the real electrical world of PLCs, invertors, motors, induction heating, etc etcWhen that all went tits up (I refused to be TUPE'd) I started work as electrical technician at a college where I still am.
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It's going really well so far. At the moment I'm doing about 80% domestic, with some bits of commercial, and a few farms too, but I never really expected anything else whilst I get going properly, but my ultimate aim would be to get onto the commercials again.
Also a good friend of mine is a well established self employed electrician, so I'm subbing to him a couple of days a week too, which is keeping me plenty busy.
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I have been in the industry nearly a quarter of a century and involved with electrics for quite a bit longer.
My apprenticeship was with someone who learned the trade under the 14th, so I learnt most of that, while also doing C&G 2360 under the 15th at college. It got a bit confusing one day when the lecturer (who also got confused and kept calling me Trevor) asked me what the regulation number was that referred to the spacing of switches for cooking appliances: I replied "A.29......I mean 476-20!"
In 1992 I did the 16th update.
In February 1996 I went self-employed and in October 2005 went back to PAYE.
I did the 17th update in April 2008. My claim to fame (I know peeps here have beaten me) is that I only got one question wrong in the extended exam.
And here I am, about to take delivery of BS7671:2008 Amd 1.....
My apprenticeship was with someone who learned the trade under the 14th, so I learnt most of that, while also doing C&G 2360 under the 15th at college. It got a bit confusing one day when the lecturer (who also got confused and kept calling me Trevor) asked me what the regulation number was that referred to the spacing of switches for cooking appliances: I replied "A.29......I mean 476-20!"
In 1992 I did the 16th update.
In February 1996 I went self-employed and in October 2005 went back to PAYE.
I did the 17th update in April 2008. My claim to fame (I know peeps here have beaten me) is that I only got one question wrong in the extended exam.
And here I am, about to take delivery of BS7671:2008 Amd 1.....
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Take care here.
I did a bit too much of that and the tax geezers had me in their offices questioning me.
"Are you self-employed?"
"Yes, you know I am."
"You cannot work for another company as much as you do and call yourself self-employed."
"You what?"
Etc.....
Yes I'm aware of this.
I can't remember the figures off hand but I think 2 days a week is allowed.
I can't remember the figures off hand but I think 2 days a week is allowed.
I'm deadly serious. If you go back and look at your posts, and try to put yourself in the mindset of someone who doen't know you, I think you may understand. It's not just that your posts are generally correct, sensible and knowledgeable, but also that the language you use can sound 'electrician-like' (you might not like that!).
Needless to say, virtually all my uncertainties/'errors' are in that direction - thinking that a 'grey area person' or frank DIYer is, or may be, an electrician. Thankfully (to the best of my knowledge
), there have been very few (although not zero) electricians who I have thought were (or should be) DIYers!Kind Regards, John.
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[quakes in boots...about to be exposed...]
Thanks Eric
On the pedantic point, I like to see myself as having (put on your best CV / Interview voice) "an excellent appreciation of detail". Unfortunately, this can come over as pedantic, no matter what your industry is.
However, we pedants must always remember that we are right, no matter what they think!
I agree with you re BAS. Awesome entertainment, plus I learn a lot from watching the arguments
For me, and this should be obvious to anyone who has been following my posts at //www.diynot.com/forums/electrics/diy-is-not-an-electrician-no-sir-not-at-all.293959/, I am not an electrician.
I dabbled in electronics and electrics as a yoof, then started a degree in Electrical and Electronic Engineering, way back in 1986. However, computers were just starting to take off and I though "hey, that seems easier", and have been doing that for the last 25 years.
Was it easier? Well, this forum has shown me that I have a lot to learn about electrical work, so I guess it was ultimately just "a different type of difficult".
So, I'm a semi-proficient DIYer.
I dabbled in electronics and electrics as a yoof, then started a degree in Electrical and Electronic Engineering, way back in 1986. However, computers were just starting to take off and I though "hey, that seems easier", and have been doing that for the last 25 years.
Was it easier? Well, this forum has shown me that I have a lot to learn about electrical work, so I guess it was ultimately just "a different type of difficult".
So, I'm a semi-proficient DIYer.
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