funnily enough I live in a listed building.
The r/h side is 2" lower than the left
The r/h side is 2" lower than the left
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B
breezer
for what its worth, if the gov't are going to have 2tracker" in all vehicles, they had better get it right first, quite often tracker says my mate is some where he couldnt be, another blloke was in the sea some where (acording to tracker) and no he wasnt on a ferry
£1.34 a mile... Don't they realise that since WW2 the population of the UK has migrated around the country? Tax payers from the 1960s onwards have been paying for the motorways that give us the ability to do this, and the ability to keep in touch with family.
I thought Poo-breath Bum-face... sorry, Tony Blair, was all about family?
Train services are not adequate. It takes me 1 hour to drive the 60 miles to my parents' house: it takes 3 hours on the train. Of course, if it is going to cost me £170 inc. fuel and highwayman fees, sorry PAYG road duty fees, then I will be forced to take the train. Oh... wait a minute, I will have to either walk 3 miles to the train station and 2 miles from the train station at the other end, or I will have to pay £30 in taxis (heck, the taxi drivers are going to want to recoup their tax, plus some)
You can't take away something vital to the British way of life without leaving something in its place. It's not going to level out the cost of motoring, it's going to make it more expensive for EVERYONE! And it's going to make it too expensive for most. Think about it, small family hatchback, £10K. Annual petrol bill, £1000. PAYG mileage bill, £13K.
It is well published that people who have a close relationship with their family are healthier and live longer. Poo-breath Bum-face has taken away your NHS, now he is taking away your right to spend time with your family.
I thought Poo-breath Bum-face... sorry, Tony Blair, was all about family?
Train services are not adequate. It takes me 1 hour to drive the 60 miles to my parents' house: it takes 3 hours on the train. Of course, if it is going to cost me £170 inc. fuel and highwayman fees, sorry PAYG road duty fees, then I will be forced to take the train. Oh... wait a minute, I will have to either walk 3 miles to the train station and 2 miles from the train station at the other end, or I will have to pay £30 in taxis (heck, the taxi drivers are going to want to recoup their tax, plus some)
You can't take away something vital to the British way of life without leaving something in its place. It's not going to level out the cost of motoring, it's going to make it more expensive for EVERYONE! And it's going to make it too expensive for most. Think about it, small family hatchback, £10K. Annual petrol bill, £1000. PAYG mileage bill, £13K.
It is well published that people who have a close relationship with their family are healthier and live longer. Poo-breath Bum-face has taken away your NHS, now he is taking away your right to spend time with your family.
T
traineegasman
Stop complaining... bunch of mardy ar***se spoilt brats....It`s better than living in Russia....
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Very hard to see how this scam might work. Very few people would be willing to give up much of their mileage. If your costs double, would you still do it? probably, yes, because there is not much choice. And if your costs do double, there are going to be a LOT of very upset voters.
Fuel tax rise was stopped because of the protests. So now instead of taxing fuel they want to tax miles? So people with big thirsty cars will pay less and pensioners in a mini will pay more?
Fuel tax rise was stopped because of the protests. So now instead of taxing fuel they want to tax miles? So people with big thirsty cars will pay less and pensioners in a mini will pay more?
traineegasman said:Stop complaining... bunch of mardy ar***se spoilt brats....It`s better than living in Russia....
How so? If this takes place then we will be reverting to pony and trap whilst the formerly Trabant-driving Russians will still be driving every which way.
We need to look at the bigger picture here, what the problems are:
1) School run. Yes, well, it would be great if mums could all walk their kids to school. However, gone are the days where mums in floral dresses walked their children to school and then wandered into town to buy the shopping in a wicker basket and then skipped home to bake a cake and cook her husband's tea. The cost of living now is so high in this country that in most two-parent families both parents must work. In single-parent families, isn't it better for all that the parent goes out and works instead of relying on what the state gives?
2) Commuters. I drive to work in a 5-seater car, with just me in the car. I would love to car-pool. It would make getting up far easier if my lift depended on it. Unfortunately no-one else I know at my company lives round here. I would also like the option of public transport, but with one bus per hour, that takes a round-about route (40 minutes to my car's 10 minutes), and ends up 15 minutes' walk from my office, it's not a lot of use. Cycling could be great, we have cycleways, but it's damn hilly round here, and I really could use my time better than having to shower and change as soon as I get to work.
3) Tradesmen. Tradesmen need transport. Everyone knows that. But do they all need big vans, all the time? I know Securespark uses an Octavia with a roofrack for big stuff. Didn't tradesmen mostly use car-sized vans before the Transit? This would save a little bit of road space.
With what is available to us now, it will be detrimental to the country and it's economy to take away the car from any of the three above.
What the government needs is to give us is alternatives. They are not thinking intelligently. They are thinking "Roads are full, we need to stop people using the roads". THAT is not the problem. They need to think "People need to get places... how can we ensure they get there quickly and cheaply without building more highway and without major investment?". Reframe the problem. The quick and simple answers to this are:
1) Increase human density on the roads
2) Decrease number of humans requiring road space
3) Remove travel "peaks" through flexitime and similar.
1) could be solved with public transport that carries many people densely or with smaller cars, more suited to their main use, that can be packed onto the roads, Bombay-style. I have actually considered buying one of these, but the cost is far too high (£10,000 and I would have to import it from the US myself), plus it looks gay:
Yes, it is Goldmember's car.
Aka the Corbin Motors "Sparrow".However, could you really picture people going for a jaunt round the M25 in a bus?
2) By decreasing the number of humans requiring the road we reduce the problem. This could be solved by working from home or by providing non-road-based transport. If people could work from home one day per week then you would be reducing road-loadings by 20%. Of course, home-working isn't always feasible.
3) This has been tried. Many companies work on flexitime now and it has helped. You still get the surges though, for instance many of my colleagues drop their kids at school then come straight on to the office.
The M25 is a difficult one. If they built train-tracks along it (and other motorways) then I'm sure you could reduce loading somewhat. A lot of the M25 traffic I encounter is due to Heathrow airport. I usually encounter it when I am going to Heathrow airport so I am contributing to the problem. But what do I do? I get to Heathrow, I drop my hirecar off, then take a minibus to the terminal. That's stupid. If I could get a train straight to the terminal then I would cut out a LOT of time, a LOT of uncertainty (I have had to ring BA to get transferred to a later flight on many occasions), I could read a bit, and the roads would be freer for people who really need to use it.
D
david and julie
Friend of mine always you to say the only way to reduce congestion is to stop giving women and foreigners(not his actual words
) the right to drive. I think he only had their health in mind, but obviously the roads would be clearer for us men, which is all that should matter.(cue Richard) An important point ... Just how much importance do we Brits place upon the motor car ? As much I imagine as, for example a Suanaporean.
Swingeing motor vehicle taxes (coe !), purchase prices and congestion fees result in ? Not much better than without !! Everyone who can nearly afford it has a car ... I saw little difference to the UK in terms of vehicle numbers whilst there ...
Cost of Opel Vectra 1.8 (auto) S$95,988 (£33,103 ouch !!) COE ? around £17,241 (using mid av cost) valid 10 yrs .. So Vectra cost £51k plus road charges.... (Oh and 'road tax increases with age !! ) Just been informed Vectra level COE closer to £40,000 arghhh so £73,000 then for a bl##dy Vectra and cars at this and greater prices do sell !!
No special exemptions for COE .. business or pleasure .. Sold by auction top 2000 bids per month pay the 2000th offer amount !!
Eventually my point is, people buy cars and carry on doing so (at those prices / costs vandalise one and you will be severely punished).
If something akin to this happened in UK ... a large proportion of high street spend, would actually be diverted to the pretty well essential for many, car ...
If the economy is being hurt by people repaying debt instead of spending at this present time, imagine if they just diverted funds to the car ?? Home improvement or car ? You guess.
I know which the majority would choose.
I believe our car culture is deeper than the Singaporean one ... HMG may through another useless player Darling (just another Prescott.. Tone gives them the cr ap jobs, they are thankful for scraps) .. be digging into a real nest of worms.
http://www.houseasia.com/sg_main/singaporehome/transportation_finance.asp
http://www.adb.org/Vehicle-Emissions/SIN/transport.asp
Swingeing motor vehicle taxes (coe !), purchase prices and congestion fees result in ? Not much better than without !! Everyone who can nearly afford it has a car ... I saw little difference to the UK in terms of vehicle numbers whilst there ...
S$ approx 2.9 to B£1
Cost of Opel Vectra 1.8 (auto) S$95,988 (£33,103 ouch !!) COE ? around £17,241 (using mid av cost) valid 10 yrs .. So Vectra cost £51k plus road charges.... (Oh and 'road tax increases with age !! ) Just been informed Vectra level COE closer to £40,000 arghhh so £73,000 then for a bl##dy Vectra and cars at this and greater prices do sell !!
No special exemptions for COE .. business or pleasure .. Sold by auction top 2000 bids per month pay the 2000th offer amount !!
Eventually my point is, people buy cars and carry on doing so (at those prices / costs vandalise one and you will be severely punished).
If something akin to this happened in UK ... a large proportion of high street spend, would actually be diverted to the pretty well essential for many, car ...
If the economy is being hurt by people repaying debt instead of spending at this present time, imagine if they just diverted funds to the car ?? Home improvement or car ? You guess.
I know which the majority would choose.
I believe our car culture is deeper than the Singaporean one ... HMG may through another useless player Darling (just another Prescott.. Tone gives them the cr ap jobs, they are thankful for scraps) .. be digging into a real nest of worms.
http://www.houseasia.com/sg_main/singaporehome/transportation_finance.asp
http://www.adb.org/Vehicle-Emissions/SIN/transport.asp
Want to stop couples both having to go out to work? Simple! most people spend most money on their mortgage. Build more houses so there are enough to go round and the prices will stop rising at crazy levels.
Limit on the number of cars? Right now we have 3-4 car families. More cars than it is possible to drive at the same time. You would have to get rid of quite a few of them before it would affect the numbers being used at one time. Might increase the total mileage when one person has to ferry the others to work etc etc and then drive home, before going out again to pick them up.
Why is London transport replacing double decker buses with slinky double length articulated ones which take up twice as much road space? Not to mention ending up stuck completely across road junctions because they are so long.
The slower you drive on a road, the greater its capacity because you can drive sloser to the car in front. To increase motorway capacity, all you need to do is reduce the speed limit. Which is something to do with why they do it already on the M25 et al.
OK, taxing very crowded roads might be helpful, but it will not help at all on the majority of roads. There it is much better to increase fuel tax. And this all relies on people agreeing to expensive travel. Which they are not going to do.
Limit on the number of cars? Right now we have 3-4 car families. More cars than it is possible to drive at the same time. You would have to get rid of quite a few of them before it would affect the numbers being used at one time. Might increase the total mileage when one person has to ferry the others to work etc etc and then drive home, before going out again to pick them up.
Why is London transport replacing double decker buses with slinky double length articulated ones which take up twice as much road space? Not to mention ending up stuck completely across road junctions because they are so long.
The slower you drive on a road, the greater its capacity because you can drive sloser to the car in front. To increase motorway capacity, all you need to do is reduce the speed limit. Which is something to do with why they do it already on the M25 et al.
OK, taxing very crowded roads might be helpful, but it will not help at all on the majority of roads. There it is much better to increase fuel tax. And this all relies on people agreeing to expensive travel. Which they are not going to do.
Of course on of the other point that the government don't mention, is that they will be able to do away with speed cameras. Every single journey you make will be monitored and could result in a penalty with this sort of system in place.
Pretty soon we would all be banned for 6mths and the roads would be clear.
Pretty soon we would all be banned for 6mths and the roads would be clear.
nstreet said:Of course on of the other point that the government don't mention, is that they will be able to do away with speed cameras. Every single journey you make will be monitored and could result in a penalty with this sort of system in place.
Pretty soon we would all be banned for 6mths and the roads would be clear.
Which is why I believe in this .. It helps people become responsible .. It restrains rathr than punishes ... and not just x metres around a camera.
//www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=26812
Watch the artic' bus on the tight bends etc .. dissuades naughty parking near junction ... oops !! Watched 'em in local city, scraping their ungainly path around the narrow streets.
Damocles, don't get me started on those inappropriate bendy buses
Traffic is only a problem in certain areas, namely city centres. Hence the congestion charge. I really don't think that people driving on empty country backlanes at 11am on a Tuesday is really a contributor to congestion. I have driven in some city centres, Bradford and Birmingham spring to mind, where the traffic really wasn't too bad at all, no worse than many towns.
If the £1.34 charge is brought about on busy motorways such as the M25, as it would, then many people would think "Hey, I've got GPS: I can navigate my way using minor roads!" So, traffic volume on residential streets would increase, as would polution. We would be driving more miles on a less-direct route, at less efficient speeds. Even on a chocker motorway you are often keeping a steady 40mph with variable speed limits. You would be doing 0-30 30-0 0-30 30-0 0-30 30-0 all the time on back roads. Also the road fatalities would probably increase: a motorway is a fairly benign environment, they are all much the same. But driving on unfamiliar local roads is more difficult and more likely to result in accidents.
People living in rural areas generally drive lots of miles because things are spread out. If you are paying £150 a year in road tax now, then at even 2p per mile you are likely to be paying at least £250 a year in a rural area.
I wish they had proposed this a couple of months ago, Tony would never have got in with this policy!
Traffic is only a problem in certain areas, namely city centres. Hence the congestion charge. I really don't think that people driving on empty country backlanes at 11am on a Tuesday is really a contributor to congestion. I have driven in some city centres, Bradford and Birmingham spring to mind, where the traffic really wasn't too bad at all, no worse than many towns.
If the £1.34 charge is brought about on busy motorways such as the M25, as it would, then many people would think "Hey, I've got GPS: I can navigate my way using minor roads!" So, traffic volume on residential streets would increase, as would polution. We would be driving more miles on a less-direct route, at less efficient speeds. Even on a chocker motorway you are often keeping a steady 40mph with variable speed limits. You would be doing 0-30 30-0 0-30 30-0 0-30 30-0 all the time on back roads. Also the road fatalities would probably increase: a motorway is a fairly benign environment, they are all much the same. But driving on unfamiliar local roads is more difficult and more likely to result in accidents.
People living in rural areas generally drive lots of miles because things are spread out. If you are paying £150 a year in road tax now, then at even 2p per mile you are likely to be paying at least £250 a year in a rural area.
I wish they had proposed this a couple of months ago, Tony would never have got in with this policy!
That's why Darling has to hold the 'baby'.
When all us motorists are hammering at the doors of No.10, no doubt Darling would come flying from an upstairs window, Tone learing after him sqealing " ..I said it was a stupid idea !!"
When all us motorists are hammering at the doors of No.10, no doubt Darling would come flying from an upstairs window, Tone learing after him sqealing " ..I said it was a stupid idea !!"
I hope the surveyed were all drivers with reliance on personal transport. Hah some hopes .. Sent a used brown carrier bag around at a Greenpeace meeting I expect.
Just did some quick calcs .. allowing £0.65 tax per litre fuel and say £150 road fund
tax. [code:1]Current cost per mile 12000 miles per annum
3 miles per litre ( 13.6 MPG ) £0.23 per mile
11 miles per litre ( 50 MPG ) £0.07 per mile[/code:1]
Quoted min £0.02, max £1.34 mid cost £0.68 ooer !! That's UNlucky !
Try disputing some huge bill, just like parking, "Pay or go to goal." Whole place going down the tubes fast...
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