100W lamp and a 500mA fuse.

[ban-all-sheds]

Is "Is it not raining?" and "Isn't it raining?" the same?

What answer would you give to each if it was NOT raining?

That would depend on whether I wanted to provide the person who asked with accurate info on the state of precipitation in a way which they would understand correctly, given the wording of their question, or whether I wanted to answer based on the logic of the wording.

"Is it <whatever>". If <whatever> is false, the answer is "no". If true, "yes".

So if <whatever> is "not raining", and it is not raining, <whatever> is true, so the answer to "Is it not raining?" is "Yes".

However....

 

[securespark]

TTC: Well, that's something!

EFLI: "Is it not raining" and "Isn't it raining" are technically the same.

If that is the case, the answer to both (if it is not raining) has to be "Yes"

and that's my final answer.

I'm afraid (very afraid) that I agree with Ban on this one.

I'm not sure what his "However" means!!

 

[EFLImpudence]

I disagree - about the answers.

Shall we go out?
Is it not raining?
No, (it is not) OR Yes, (it is).

Shall we go out?
Isn't it raining?
No, (it isn't) OR Yes, (it is).

They are both the same.
I don't think either means "Is it" - "not raining" to, technically, elicit the answer "Yes" if not raining but
"Is it not" "raining" which elicits the answer "No" if not raining or "Yes" if raining.


I think (maybe wrongly) Bas' "However" means he thinks the answer could be the opposite.

 

[securespark]

I shall go away and confer with a Professor of Inglish Langwidge (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Gerry-Abbott/e/B001JJ45WU)

EDIT: His simple brief question (to me) was:

Are you not Simon Abbott?

 

[EFLImpudence]

What about "You are Simon Abbot, are you not (aren't you)?" - Are you not (aren't you) SA?"
It may just be a quirk of the language to which we have become accustomed.
Another way is "You're not Simon Abbot, are you?"

Isn't the answer in all cases dependent on whether you are or are not SA; and not the wording?

A good one is "Don't you forget(?)" which can be an instruction or a question.
When used as an instruction - "Meet me at six; don't you forget" - can it be worded differently?

 

[securespark]

However....

 

[Risteard]

And a liar.

I'm not a liar. I said I don't recognise either of the partition statelets in Ireland.

That is true. As is the fact that I am in Ireland. True. Indisputable.

 

[winston1]

And a liar.

I'm not a liar. I said I don't recognise either of the partition statelets in Ireland.

That is true. As is the fact that I am in Ireland. True. Indisputable.

Because you may not agree with something that happened before you were born does not mean it has not happened. You have to recognise it.

You are in the island of Ireland, but you are not, as far as we can tell, in the Irish Republic. As such your displaying the Irish flag as your country is a lie. Really it is time you grew up.

 

[Risteard]

You have to recognise it.

No I don't. I reject all claim to legitimacy of either partition statelet, ergo I refuse to recognise them.

 

[EFLImpudence]

Most of us don't vote for the Government we end up with, either.

 

[winston1]

You have to recognise it.

No I don't. I reject all claim to legitimacy of either partition statelet, ergo I refuse to recognise them.

As I said, it is time you grew up.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I disagree - about the answers.

Hmmm.


Is it not raining?

Ignoring the fact that in reality there is a cline, it is either raining, or it is not. The not applies to the raining.

You can ask "is it raining?", or "is it not raining?"

"Is it [status]?"

The "not" is irrelevant to the way the logic works. "Is it Wednesday?" - If it is Wednesday, the answer is yes.


"Is it raining?" If it is raining, the answer is yes.

If it is not raining, the answer is no.

​

Is the value of the proposition "it is raining" true, or false? If true, i.e. it is raining, the answer is yes. If false, i.e. it is not raining, the answer is no.

But if you invert the value of the condition being tested for, but not the condition itself, then the answers must invert.

Is the value of the proposition "it is not raining" true, or false? If true, i.e. it is not raining, the answer to the question "is it not raining" is yes. If false, i.e. it is raining, the answer is no.

They are both the same.

They can't be.

I don't think either means "Is it" - "not raining" to, technically, elicit the answer "Yes" if not raining but
"Is it not" "raining" which elicits the answer "No" if not raining or "Yes" if raining.

It is either [raining] or it is [not raining].

The question is "is it [-----]?". If the question is "is it [raining]?" then the answer is easy - Yes if it is raining, No if it is not raining.

If the question is "is it [not raining]?" then the question has been inverted. For the same weather conditions the answers must also invert.

I think (maybe wrongly) Bas' "However" means he thinks the answer could be the opposite.

The "however" is in recognition of the fact that people don't mean what they are asking, and will take an answer to mean the opposite, and then there could be strife.

There would particularly be strife if the question was about a future event.

"I really need to take the car for a service - could you get the bus to your Mum's?"

"Oh - is it not going to pour with rain?"

"No."

Spoiler: Meaning

i.e. the proposition "it is not going to pour with rain" is false, i.e. it is going to pour with rain.

When the bus traveller returns soaked to the skin they will not agree that you should have answered as you did.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

You have to recognise it.

No I don't.

Indeed not.

You can also, with just as much of a grasp on reality, refuse to recognise that the world is round.

Saddam Hussein did not recognise the court which tried him, but it recognised him, and it hanged him.

I reject all claim to legitimacy of either partition statelet, ergo I refuse to recognise them.

Your refusal to recognise them does not change reality.

You do NOT live in the RoI. To say that you do is a lie.

You do NOT live in the country whose flag is the one you claim it is. To say that you do is a lie.

STOP LYING!

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moderator's note
time for this interminable and entirely pointless squabble to be sent to bed.
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