10mm shower cable

[JohnW2]

Flow rate is entirely governed by how much energy the shower puts into the water. For any given combination of shower power and temperature rise the flow rate is fixed.

Indeed so (that's exactly what I wrote), but some people's perception of how 'good' a shower is will 'major' on flow rate - regardless (within reason) of temperature.

Spray pattern is a function of the shower head - nothing to do with what power the heater is.

Again, indeed, and my point was that perception of shower 'performance' (as in 'outperforming') encompasses factors other than the power of the heater.

Kind Regards, John

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Perception is not a measure of performance. That's why things have technical specifications.

 

[JohnW2]

Perception is not a measure of performance. That's why things have technical specifications.

Both matter to the user.

Kind Regards, John

 

[ban-all-sheds]

They may matter.

A car with a deliberately noisy exhaust and a 0-60 of 6s and a top speed of 120 does not outperform a quieter one with 4s and 150mph, no matter what the perception engendered by the sound.

 

[JohnW2]

A car with a deliberately noisy exhaust and a 0-60 of 6s and a top speed of 120 does not outperform a quieter one with 4s and 150mph, no matter what the perception engendered by the sound.

I'm not going to expend significant time arguing about what people mean when they say "outperform". This is, after all, an Electrics forum.

You can only present your argument because we are dealing with a situation in which a technical specification is possible, and might possibly be the only component of 'performance' that some people consider. However, if you consider things like, say, acting or singing, when one person is said to 'outperform' another, that is primarily, if not exclusively, on the basis of perception.

Kind Regards, John

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I'm unaware of any form of "artistic impression" performed by an instant water heater.

There may be aspects of the experience which depend on what the shower head does, but the shower head, (and hose) are transferable to any other electric shower.

Given the same hose, and the same shower head, there is no way that an 8.5kW shower can "outperform" a 10.8kW one. Except in running costs, but if you are that concerned about a delta of 2.3kW, (well under 1 unit for even a long shower) then you wouldn't have one at all.

 

[JohnW2]

Given the same hose, and the same shower head, there is no way that an 8.5kW shower can "outperform" a 10.8kW one. Except in running costs ....

Agreed - but, if for whatever reason, the user was at least 'as happy' with the lower-power one, then they might well feel that that lower running cost (albeit a small difference) represented a better 'performance'.

Kind Regards, John

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Well, yes, but this can be reversed with equal validity:

Well, it will make a slight difference but you won't know what the 8.5 would have been like.

Someone "happy" with an 8.5 doesn't know if they would be "happier" with a 10.8.

 

[JohnW2]

Someone "happy" with an 8.5 doesn't know if they would be "happier" with a 10.8.

Agreed, unless they had experienced both. However, it would be rather silly of them to say anything about relative 'performance' (whatever they meant by that) if they had not experienced both.

However, as I said, if they had experience of both and were at least as 'happy' with the lower-powered one, they might well regard its (slightly) lower running costs as representing 'better performance'. That would be true of any other pair of products which a user perceived as 'equivalent', but with one using less energy, so I don't know why showers should be an exception.

You must be having a quiet and/or boring day, if you want to spend your time, yet again, discussing the meaning of words.

Kind Regards, John

 

[ban-all-sheds]

My day is fine, thanks.

But it has been interesting to see that you are keen to defend a meaning of a word which is based on an everyday-ordinary-average-man-in-the-street concept, and yet question why I was criticising PBoD for doing the same as that, and doing it in a context where when I also did it he accused me of writing shyte, and similar.

 

[JohnW2]

But it has been interesting to see that you are keen to defend a meaning of a word which is based on an everyday-ordinary-average-man-in-the-street concept, and yet question why I was criticising PBoD for doing the same as that ....

My Goodness - that's now at least three threads in which you have managed to bring up that issue. Can't you 'let go'??

Kind Regards, John

 

[John D v2.0]

I'm unaware of any form of "artistic impression" performed by an instant water heater.

oh ban all sheds, you haven't lived. it's amazing how loud a tune you can get out of an 8.5 kw PA system, what's more you can use the heat sink to warm the water so no wastage! I also use the water down the drain to heat up the incoming supply, meaning my shower is the hottest and most invigorating of them all!

 

[ban-all-sheds]

My Goodness - that's now at least three threads in which you have managed to bring up that issue.

I don't think it's fair to count the one where PBoD committed his offences.

Nor, really, the one where I highlighted his egregious hypocrisy.

This one? All I did was to observe that I am clearly not the only one who realises that in ordinary discourse ordinary people use ordinary meanings of words, not necessarily specialist ones.

Can't you 'let go'??

Let go from being insulted for being right by someone who knows that he is in the wrong?

That would be the moral, honest and decent thing to do why, exactly?

The desire for people to "let go" is common amongst those who just want a quiet life, who think that injustices, malfeasances etc should be allowed to stand - "it's over, it's in the past, let it go".


Actually, I'm probably not going to persevere - PBoD has been exposed for what he is.

 

[SUNRAY]

Perception is not a measure of performance. That's why things have technical specifications.

Ah it's an old one... this thread has appeared at the bottom of the page and for some reason I started reading it...

It is very easy to get into mindset that a smaller unit is better than a bigger one, especially when the big one is old and chalked up or even one of the three elements had failed.
I had exactly this situation at a rental where a >10KW unit needed replacement and as it was on an undersized circuit a smaller unit was installed. The tenants immediate reaction was the improved performance.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

It is very easy to get into mindset that a smaller unit is better than a bigger one, especially when the big one is old and chalked up or even one of the three elements had failed.

But an objective measurement of the performance of the old, scaled up, element deficient shower would show that it was not performing as well as the new smaller one.

Just like an old car firing on 6 cylinders instead of 8, down on compression, timing wrong, mixture wrong etc might be slower than a brand new car with less performance than the old car had when new.