17 edition PIR fault code

[daytona]

for cables buried less than 50mm deep not in an earthed metallic conduit.


code 4?

its not dangerous but does not comply with bs7671.
what do you think?

 

[FingRinal]

For a 17th Edition installation, it would be a Code 2 (assuming no RCD protection). For a 16th edition installation it would be a Code 4.

 

[daytona]

am i the only one that didnt know that then?

 

[FingRinal]

Not 100% happy with my previous reply. I'll try again.

For a 17th Edition installation and PIR to 17th, it would be a Code 2 (assuming no RCD protection). For a 16th edition installation it would be a Code 4 if the cables are in the safe zone and the PIR is to the 17th.

 

[daytona]

dont start on me pal

lack of replies suggest everybody else knew thats all.

you got a right complex you, havent you, its only a forum

 

[FingRinal]

Wind your neck in. It was I that was not happy with my reply so I clarified it.

 

[Adam_151]

Perhaps its just me, but I'm having trouble seeing how what edition the installation was constructed under would have an effect on the coding?

Obviously which edition you are I&T to will make a difference, but which edition was in force when it was constructed?

Or have I misread you?

 

[GaryMo]

It's a code 4, not a code 2.
It doesn't matter which version of the regulations that the installation was installed to. What we do is compare the installation to the current version of BS7671 and report any defects or non compliances. For the sake of it lets call that BS7671:2008 (17th).

Code 4 being that it doesn't comply with current regulations - BS7671:2008.

 

[FingRinal]

Yes, so if it was a 16th installation and the cables were in the safe zone and the PIR was carried out to the 17th, it would be a Code 4 as it complied with the 16th but not the 17th.

If it's a 17th installation and the PIR is to the 17th and the cables are not protected with earthed conduit or an RCD, it's a Code 2 as it is non compliance with the 17th which could lead to danger.

An example of Code 4 in a 17th installation to a 17th PIR would be a non compliance which couldn't lead to danger - for example not flagging a switched live.

By danger, we are mainly tallking about a risk of shock or fire in normal use.

 

[GaryMo]

16th edition, 17th eidition, who cares? The installation is compared to the current version. You only need knowledge of the current version which we'll generally accept as BS7671:2008.

I suggest you read the ESC's guide to PIR's.

http://www.electricalsafetycouncil.org.uk/pdf/BPG4_08.pdf

 

[Adam_151]

So you are saying that if in 2006 I installed a cable to a lightswitch in a prescribed zone, in pvc oval tube, less than 50mm deep and not on RCD, then you come along and PIR it to the 17th, you find it and code 4 it, ok, that sounds right to me

But, if I should be ignorant of the 17th, and install the very same thing in July 2008 and you come along and PIR it in september due to a change in tenancy, then thats a code 2?

In what way does it represent a more hazardous situation than the one I installed in 2006 that you coded a 4?

 

[GaryMo]

It's a code 4, simple as that.

Also bear in mind that a single code 2 would mean an unsatisfactory PIR according to the ESC.

"It would not be reasonable to indicate a satisfactory’ assessment if any observation in the report had been given a Code 1 or Code 2 recommendation. The recommended interval until the next inspection should be made conditional upon all the Code 1 and Code 2 departures being rectified without undue delay."

Make sure your professional indemnity insurance is valid!

 

[Adam_151]

It's a code 4, simple as that.

I agree totally, but I'm curious as to why FR thinks it should make a difference

Perhaps I need not have broght it up, rather just grabbed some popcorn, pulled up an armchair and waited for bas to stumble by this post....

 

[GaryMo]

It's a code 4, simple as that.

I agree totally, but I'm curious as to why FR thinks it should make a difference

He doesn't carry out PIR's?

 

[FingRinal]

It's a code 4, simple as that.

Also bear in mind that a single code 2 would mean an unsatisfactory PIR according to the ESC.

"It would not be reasonable to indicate a satisfactory’ assessment if any observation in the report had been given a Code 1 or Code 2 recommendation. The recommended interval until the next inspection should be made conditional upon all the Code 1 and Code 2 departures being rectified without undue delay."

Make sure your professional indemnity insurance is valid!

The ESC is not the Regs. If I were you, I'd ask the NICEIC what they think of their members giving Code 1's out like confetti rather than introduce the ESC guide which they helped to compile.

Also, if you're going to give a Code 4 for such a defect, I'd make sure YOU have sufficient PI insurance as the BRITISH STANDARD lists a Code 2 defect as requiring improvement. Especially after old Mr Smith knocks a nail through a cable and dies of shock and it's subsequently discovered that you had just changed his CU after first carrying out a PIR to the 17th in an installatin you've just installed to the 17th MINUS RCD protection and minus earthed steel conduit.

Usually, it's an elementary error to award Code 1's in place of Code 2's and not to downgrade Code 2's to Code 4's in error.