2.5 mm Earth bond on msins water

[securespark]

132.16 (in green book)

Additions and alterations to an installation.

No addition or alteration, temporary or permanent, shall be made to an existing installation unless it has been ascertained that the rating and conditions of any existing equipment, including that of the distributor, will be adequate for the altered circumstances. Furthermore, the earthing and bonding arrangements, if necessary for the protective measure applied for the safety of the addition or alteration, shall be adequate.

 

[JohnW2]

132.16 (in green book)

So it does (and identical in the brown book) !

Another example of 'one learns something every day'. I have to say, that I tend to overlook 'Part 1' (Chapters 11-13) of the regs, not the least because it comes before the Definitions' (in 'Part 2') - which in virtually any other document I look at would be expected to come 'before any relevant text' !!

Kind Regards, John

 

[securespark]

Now, adequate doesn't necessarily mean you install the latest size of conductor.

But to prove a lesser size was adequate, you'd need to do an adiabatic.

TBF, it's a lot less hassle to just upgrade the conductors.

 

[JohnW2]

Now, adequate doesn't necessarily mean you install the latest size of conductor. .... But to prove a lesser size was adequate, you'd need to do an adiabatic.

I think that would probably be iffy, since it would presumably require assumptions about the impedance to earth of the extraneous-c-p concerned. If one based an adiabatic calculation on the impedance as measured during a dry period, a conductor sized according to that calculation could become inadequate during much wetter conditions.

Furthermore, I'm not even sure that adiabatic calculations are necessarily suitable for this purpose. Some people's concerns about bonding conductors is that they may 'melt' and/or set fire to something, situations which would presumably require high currents rto flow for appreciable periods of time - but adiabatic conditions are only maintained (hence adiabatic calculations valid) for currents which flow only for very brief periods (up to about 5 seconds)

TBF, it's a lot less hassle to just upgrade the conductors.

Indeed )as well as the above). I imagine that even conductors which comply with the regs are not necessarily guaranteed to be truly 'adequate' under all circumstances, but they are 'deemed to be'

Kind Regards, John

 

[Murdochcat]

Funny thing is that most sparks know this and make sure its done

BUT some don't and almost certainly neither do the plethora of DIYers either

 

[JohnW2]

Funny thing is that most sparks know this and make sure its done .... BUT some don't ...

It's hard to see how they can issue a (properly completed) EIC without realising that the bonding conductors are inadequate (and, presumably,doing something absout thst).

 

[diycooper]

It's hard to see how they can issue a (properly completed) EIC without realising that the bonding conductors are inadequate (and, presumably,doing something absout thst).

Yes so if I was not a landlord and waa in my home residential property. And I had no more money after the quote.


He would not be able to pass his own work if I couldn't upgrafe the bonding post cu install .

 

[Murdochcat]

It's hard to see how they can issue a (properly completed) EIC without realising that the bonding conductors are inadequate (and, presumably,doing something absout thst).

Issuing a what?

Certs these days seem to be getting rarer

 

[JohnW2]

Issuing a what? Certs these days seem to be getting rarer

I obviously cannot speak for thee work you do, but the majority of proper electricians still seem to issue EICs or Minor Works certs for any/all work they do.

The great majority of DIYers obviously do not issue any certs, even though, if they wish to comply with BS7671, they really ought to - but that's a different matter.

 

[Murdochcat]

I obviously cannot speak for the work you do, but the majority of proper electricians still seem to issue EICs or Minor Works certs for any/all work they do.

Really - how would you know?

How big is your sample size?

 

[JohnW2]

Really - how would you know?

Because I am involved, in conjunction with a family member, in commissioning several electrical jobs (of all sizes) every month - so maybe 50-100 per year - and scattered all over thee country, involving a whole range of different electricians

How big is your sample size?

As above. Certainly not an enormous sample size, but plenty large enough to indicate that the issuing of certificates is by no means 'rare'

 

[Murdochcat]

Because I am involved, in conjunction with a family member, in commissioning several electrical jobs (of all sizes) every month - so maybe 50-100 per year - and scattered all over thee country, involving a whole range of different electricians

As above. Certainly not an enormous sample size, but plenty large enough to indicate that the issuing of certificates is by no means 'rare'

Really? Of course in your line of “business” you are far more likely to see certificates.

Try reality in domestic ….

 

[JohnW2]

Really? Of course in your line of “business” you are far more likely to see certificates.

It's not 'my line of business'. It's the business of one of my family members, who buys, works on and sells dozens of properties every year. I take some interest in some of what goes on, not the least being the electrical work that she has undertaken.

Try reality in domestic ….

I am talking entirely about domestic properties, and primarily of electricians who work mainly or exclusively on domestic installations.

 

[Murdochcat]

It's not 'my line of business'. It's the business of one of my family members, who buys, works on and sells dozens of properties every year. I take some interest in some of what goes on, not the least being the electrical work that she has undertaken.

I am talking entirely about domestic properties, and primarily of electricians who work mainly or exclusively on domestic installations.

Your example is no reality though. Your relative is turning lots of properties per year so any trades people are going to work in such a way to ensure they get a good percentage of such work

I’m thinking about the countless thousands of sparks who do work AND bob the builder etc who dabble with no intention of complying with the regs and least of all providing certificates or even invoices

 

[JohnW2]

Your example is no reality though. Your relative is turning lots of properties per year so any trades people are going to work in such a way to ensure they get a good percentage of such work

As I tried to stress, the properties are all over the country, not all that often in the same place twice, and electricians who are 'local' to each property are usually utilised - so the issue of wanting to get 'repeat work'is not much of a factor in many parts of the country.

I’m thinking about the countless thousands of sparks who do work AND bob the builder etc who dabble with no intention of complying with the regs and least of all providing certificates or even invoices

I've been talking only about electrician (and 'electricians'). I have (and have no desire to have!) any experience of what happens when Bob the Builder does electrical work, but I can well believe that he quite probably does not even know what certificates he's meant to produce, let alone how to complete them (and that even if he knows how to do the electrical work properly - or, at least, fairly 'safely)