2 Electrians differing reports

[AMCLS1]

Hi,

I've been told by my main contractor that I need a rewire of the new house. Built in 1900 but rewired about 20 years ago.

I am awaiting a quote for the job from the first electrician (4 bed terrace house) and I have been told between £2,500 to £3,000.

My Dad said he didn't think I needed a rewire so I arranged for a second electrician to come in (I found the second electrician from the NICEIC website - as it happens I can't find the first electrician on there) The second electrician came out for £30 to take a look and hes going to give me a report. He checked the sockets were earthed and told me I needed a new consumer unit after he opened it up but he said the wire was sound as it doesn't corrode etc. He said we could fit new sockets etc also he checked where the stop cock was.

Overall my second electrician was pretty positive.

Question is what to do? The NICEIC approved electrician says we don't need a rewire but the first electrician (Who seemed trust worthy, quality knipex pliers, youngman ladders, good work wear etc) hasn't stopped me.

I'm a little confused so I'd like to hear peoples thoughts.

Many Thanks.

 

[JohnW2]

If the house had a complete rewire 20 years ago, it's very unlikely that it would need a major re-wire now - although some things (like the CU etc.) might benefit from being updated.

Did the first electrician give you any sort of formal report and, if so, did he indicate that any aspects of the present electrical installation were 'unsafe' or 'dangerous'? Although there will be aspects of a 20 year-old installation which won't be compliant with current regulations, there is no obligation to 'bring them up to current standards'.

Kind Regards, John

 

[AMCLS1]

If the house had a complete rewire 20 years ago, it's very unlikely that it would need a major re-wire now - although some things (like the CU etc.) might benefit from being updated.

Did the first electrician give you any sort of formal report and, if so, did he indicate that any aspects of the present electrical installation were 'unsafe' or 'dangerous'? Although there will be aspects of a 20 year-old installation which won't be compliant with current regulations, there is no obligation to 'bring them up to current standards'.

Kind Regards, John

Thanks for your response John.

No he didn't do a report (Out of interest what does a report consist of? tests etc?) To add a bit more information. I went to the house on Tuesday in the evening and turned the power on to boil the kettle and spray some hot water on the wood chip to aid the removal. When I turned the power on the alarm went off, I don't know the code (very old system) and not wanting to upset the neighbors after my attempts at removing batteries etc I had to call an emergency electrician. He turned up and we had a chat and I asked him to come back and look at the job on Wednesday, I said rewire but at no point did he say I didn't need one.

The second chap (NICEIC registered) is going to to forward me a report but he checked behind sockets and light switches and had a look through the property.

 

[JohnW2]

...after my attempts at removing batteries etc I had to call an emergency electrician. He turned up and we had a chat and I asked him to come back and look at the job on Wednesday, I said rewire but at no point did he say I didn't need one.

I'm a bit confused. You said that it was your 'main contractor' who had said that a rewire was needed, not a casual chat with an emergemcy electrician who had come to silence an alarm.

The second chap (NICEIC registered) is going to to forward me a report but he checked behind sockets and light switches and had a look through the property.

I'd wait and see what his report says, and what he advises. As I said, if it really did have a full rewire 20 years ago, it's not going to need anything approaching another full rewire now. In fact, the 'wring', per se, will almost certainly be fine, so any new wiring will probably only be needed if you want extra things (sockets, lights, cookers, showers etc.). Upgrading the CU etc., maybe some of the accessories etc. may be appropriate.

Kind Regards, John

 

[seasickstevie]

I don't think anyone can say (without seeing the job) that because a house was wired twenty years ago, the wiring will "almost certainly be fine".

It depends what sort of spark did the job, and how much of a hurry he was in.

I've seen plenty of jobs done in much more recent times than twenty years ago, that basically want ripping out and starting again. Particularly bearing in mind that the OP's house is still unoccupied ... Now's the time!!!

And regarding the replacement of a twenty-year old Consumer Unit ... without wanting to sound blunt John, I don't think it's a case of "might benefit".
It will almost certainly be beneficial to have the introduction of (at least) two RCDs, assuming of course that it doesn't have a '17th edition' now.

 

[ericmark]

There are many reasons to call for a re-wire and without a report stating why it is easy to miss some vital point. £30 for a full electrical installation condition report seems rather cheap so I would assume not a full report just a quick check.

My daughters house has wiring which to me is suspect, I can't find where the cables go and I assume somewhere in the wall between old garage now a room and rest of the house there is a void where cables are joined likely the site of the original consumer unit. Non of the cables seem to be run in a ring but the connection at consumer unit seems to be a ring. As a result it's protected to 20A not 32A but because can't find junction box still rather worried there may be screw terminals in the junction box. Because of the radials and suspect system an electrician testing could genuine recommend a re-wire of socket circuits even though the cable seems OK. Yet another on same house would do as I have done and use 20A MCB to feed sockets it is a professional opinion and neither is wrong no fault has been found. I give this as an example and you can see without my report if my daughter was to post it would be hard to fault either method of dealing with the situation.

I have been asked to inspect a hotel which had a rather damming report but the only real fault I could find was asbestos in the fuse boxes. It was clearly a money making exercise they did a very cheap inspection clearly hoping it would generate work as a result. Their problem was the bursar was a radio ham and she realised something was not right with the report. But even with a one to one talk my son had to visit to be sure we could not work it out without a site visit.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

... seemed trust worthy, quality knipex pliers, youngman ladders, good work wear etc ...

You could go out shopping now, and return home with all that well before lunch.

Would it make you an electrician?

Particularly bearing in mind that the OP's house is still unoccupied ... Now's the time!!!

If you are going to have significant work done, it will be easier, quicker and therefore cheaper if the electrician doesn't have to worry about maintaining or restoring power, doesn't have to keep replacing floorboards, move furniture and carpets, can use powered cutting tools on the walls without fear of messing up soft furnishings and clothes etc.

And from your POV, before you stick whatever will replace the woodchip to the walls is the best time to knock them about.




//www.diynot.com/wiki/Electrics:How-many-sockets-and-circuits-should-I-have

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[JohnW2]

I don't think anyone can say (without seeing the job) that because a house was wired twenty years ago, the wiring will "almost certainly be fine".

Perhaps I wasn't totally clear, although I tried to be. When I wrote (complete with typo!) that "the 'wring', per se,", which I said "will almost certainly be fine", I was referring to the 'wire' (cable) - which, I imagine you will agree, "will almost certainly be fine" after only 20 years.

It depends what sort of spark did the job, and how much of a hurry he was in.

True, but it would have to be a pretty awful job for all the cabling to need replacing.

And regarding the replacement of a twenty-year old Consumer Unit ... without wanting to sound blunt John, I don't think it's a case of "might benefit". ... It will almost certainly be beneficial to have the introduction of (at least) two RCDs, assuming of course that it doesn't have a '17th edition' now.

Most people would, indeed, say that. However, it's a 'benefit' which millions of households still do not enjoy (and many have chosen not to enjoy, despite 'recommendations'), and is certainly (IMO) not, in itself, necessarily a reason to have a full re-wire.

As I've said, the OP needs a proper report and expert advice/ recommendations from a competent electrician. Whether that is what he's going to get from his 'second electrician' (who sounds as if he's done a lot less than an EICR) is another matter.

Kind Regards, John

 

[AMCLS1]

...after my attempts at removing batteries etc I had to call an emergency electrician. He turned up and we had a chat and I asked him to come back and look at the job on Wednesday, I said rewire but at no point did he say I didn't need one.

I'm a bit confused. You said that it was your 'main contractor' who had said that a rewire was needed, not a casual chat with an emergemcy electrician who had come to silence an alarm.

The second chap (NICEIC registered) is going to to forward me a report but he checked behind sockets and light switches and had a look through the property.

I'd wait and see what his report says, and what he advises. As I said, if it really did have a full rewire 20 years ago, it's not going to need anything approaching another full rewire now. In fact, the 'wring', per se, will almost certainly be fine, so any new wiring will probably only be needed if you want extra things (sockets, lights, cookers, showers etc.). Upgrading the CU etc., maybe some of the accessories etc. may be appropriate.

Kind Regards, John

Hi John,

The main contractor did indeed say we needed a full rewire and the emergency chap seemed to concur with that.

It seems to me that we can replace the CU and replace all the internal sockets and switches and save some money in the process.

Many Thanks.

 

[AMCLS1]

... seemed trust worthy, quality knipex pliers, youngman ladders, good work wear etc ...

You could go out shopping now, and return home with all that well before lunch.

Would it make you an electrician?

Particularly bearing in mind that the OP's house is still unoccupied ... Now's the time!!!

If you are going to have significant work done, it will be easier, quicker and therefore cheaper if the electrician doesn't have to worry about maintaining or restoring power, doesn't have to keep replacing floorboards, move furniture and carpets, can use powered cutting tools on the walls without fear of messing up soft furnishings and clothes etc.

And from your POV, before you stick whatever will replace the woodchip to the walls is the best time to knock them about.




//www.diynot.com/wiki/Electrics:How-many-sockets-and-circuits-should-I-have

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Yes I agree I could get all that. Good point.

See image below of my plan of the house. Sockets are circled in yellow and shaver socket in bathroom needs to be prepped.

Untitled

• AMCLS1
• 15 Aug 2014
• 1

There are no light switches on there but we are happy with the current positions so they will all need replacing. I want to spec MK for all fittings.

The only thing missing is some extra switches for a range cooker etc but again that will be discussed in detail at the house. I'll be going around with a thick marker pen and pointing out everything.

Many thanks.

 

[JohnW2]

Particularly bearing in mind that the OP's house is still unoccupied ... Now's the time!!!

...

That is obviously true, IF a major rewire is required (or is likely to be required in the foreseeable future) - but we are, as yet, far from sure that such is the case. Indeed, we have not yet been told a single reason why the 'rewire' was said to be needed. (and I don't think that we are necessarily even certain that the house is 'still unoccupied', except on the basis of an 'assumption', are we?)

As I've said, the OP needs competent expert advice and recommendations, based on a proper inspection (which I'm far from convinced has yet been undertaken).

Kind Regards, John

 

[AMCLS1]

Particularly bearing in mind that the OP's house is still unoccupied ... Now's the time!!!

...

That is obviously true, IF a major rewire is required (or is likely to be required in the foreseeable future) - but we are, as yet, far from sure that such is the case. Indeed, we have not yet been told a single reason why the 'rewire' was said to be needed. (and I don't think that we are necessarily even certain that the house is 'still unoccupied', except on the basis of an 'assumption', are we?)

As I've said, the OP needs competent expert advice and recommendations, based on a proper inspection (which I'm far from convinced has yet been undertaken).

Kind Regards, John

Thanks John.

Re the status of the property it is indeed unoccupied at present. Can someone please indicate what would be relayed to me in an EICR.

Many thanks.

 

[JohnW2]

Hi John, The main contractor did indeed say we needed a full rewire and the emergency chap seemed to concur with that. It seems to me that we can replace the CU and replace all the internal sockets and switches and save some money in the process.

Indeed. Most people would say that it would be worthwhile ('safer') to have the CU replaced, and you may well want to replace sockets/switches etc. for essentially aesthetic reasons (and you may need a few extra sockets or whatever), but that would be far less of a job that a 're-wire'. Despite what others seem to be suggesting, I still think it's very unlikely that and major amount of 're-wiring' (replacing cables) would be required. However, as I've also said, I think you really need to start with a formal report (and recommendations) from an electrician based on a 'full proper inspection' of the installation (resulting in an Electrical Installation Condition Report - EICR) - and it sounds as if that may not yet actually have been done.

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

Can someone please indicate what would be relayed to me in an EICR. Many thanks.

Every 'accessible' aspect of the installation would be 'inspected' (in some cases just a 'sample' - e.g. looking behind switches, sockets and light fittings etc.). All circuits would be fully tested. You would end up with a very detailed report (the 'EICR'), including all the test results, in which a large number of aspects of the installation would be considered, and for every thing (small or large) which was considered 'less than ideal', the desirability/necessity to have it addressed would be 'graded' (from 'attention recommended' to 'dangerous and needs immediate attention').

If you click here , Forms 6 and 7 (particularly the latter) will give you some idea of what you would be likley to receive.

Kind Regards, John

 

[AMCLS1]

Can someone please indicate what would be relayed to me in an EICR. Many thanks.

Every 'accessible' aspect of the installation would be 'inspected' (in some cases just a 'sample' - e.g. looking behind switches, sockets and light fittings etc.). All circuits would be fully tested. You would end up with a very detailed report (the 'EICR'), including all the test results, in which a large number of aspects of the installation would be considered, and for every thing (small or large) which was considered 'less than ideal', the desirability/necessity to have it addressed would be 'graded' (from 'attention recommended' to 'dangerous and needs immediate attention').

If you click here , Forms 6 and 7 (particularly the latter) will give you some idea of what you would be likley to receive.

Kind Regards, John

Thanks for that info. Very helpful.