2 way wall socket question

[ban-all-sheds]

And that BAS is too stubborn to admit he's wrong

If I am wrong, then it would be very easy for you to show me, and everybody else that I am.

If I am wrong about the standard not requiring a twin socket to be able to handle 26A, then just quote the section which does contain that requirement. A screenshot will do if your file is copy protected.

Why won't you do that, stillp?

and instead obfuscates by pretending he doesn't understand what is written in the standard.

I understand most of it.

There are one or two things where I don't know what they mean, like "normal use", and "excessive temperature". But then you don't know what they mean either.

 

[stillp]

BAS, as I've stated previously, there is not a statement that a twin 13A socket-outlet shall be able to carry 26A. Such a statement would be incorrect, since the currents could be split unequally. There are several requirements for 13A sockets to be able to carry 13A. Those are not reduced when two share a common faceplate.

I will not post extracts from any standard on a forum. My copy is not copy protected, however it is watermarked.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

BAS, as I've stated previously, there is not a statement that a twin 13A socket-outlet shall be able to carry 26A. Such a statement would be incorrect, since the currents could be split unequally.

OK - if you think that that is going to be a help to you in your futile argument:

And that BAS is too stubborn to admit he's wrong

If I am wrong, then it would be very easy for you to show me, and everybody else that I am.

If I am wrong about the standard not requiring a twin socket to be able to handle 2 x 13A, then just quote the section which does contain that requirement. A screenshot will do if your file is copy protected.​

Why won't you do that, stillp?​

There are several requirements for 13A sockets to be able to carry 13A.

Please quote the one which requires one to carry 13A without attaining an excessive temperature in normal use.

Quote the one which is actually there, not one which you have invented.

I will not post extracts from any standard on a forum.

Do you really think that there is a single person here who does not know exactly why you will not?

It is because you cannot.

My copy is not copy protected, however it is watermarked.

What a truly pathetic, useless failure of an excuse.

You won't quote the requirements I have asked you countless times to quote, not because you aren't allowed to, not because you're worried about the legality of doing so - it is because you cannot, for the simple reason that they are not in there - they are your inventions.

But there are no such concerns which prevent you from answering these - so will you please do so, because I am running out of space to keep a record of your dismal, twisting, evasive, offensive and dishonest posts.

• If you are right about it being safe to load a twin socket to 2 x 13A, and I am wrong about it being potentially dangerous, please put forward a credible mechanism by which people following my advice could end up in a possibly lethally dangerous situation.

• Please put forward an intelligent, rational, and credible explanation of how incorrect advice to not load a socket beyond the limit of its capabilities could be lethally dangerous.

 

[stillp]

And you keep on and on and on saying that sockets have to do things which the standard does not say they have to do.

Not true. I have repeatedly stated that the standard requires 13A sockets to be able to carry 13A. Do you not believe that the standard does require that?

what about the situation we have here, where you claim that items have to conform to a requirement which is not stated?

The standard requires 13A sockets to be able to carry 13A.

Please quote what the standard actually requires, wrt carrying 13A without overheating.

As you know, there is no requirement for a socket-outlet to be able to carry any specific current for any specific time without overheating. There is a requirement that they shall not attain excessive temperatures in normal use, which is verified by a test that does not simulate normal use.

Please quote what the standard actually requires, for a single socket wrt carrying 13A without overheating, for which there is no exception or exemption for a twin.

See above.

If none of those things are specified, how dare you put peoples lives at risk by telling them that of course their twin socket can safely carry 26A?

I am telling people that they must select socket-outlets that can carry the current specified in the standard. Otherwise their lives could indeed be put at risk. That current, for 13A sockets, is 13A. Telling people that twin 13A socket-outlets need not carry more than 20A is encouraging them to select sockets that do not meet the requirements of the standard, which could put their lives at risk. Of course, using a socket at less than its maximum allowable current is a good thing. Perhaps we should advise people that a single 13A socket should only be used at 10A?

If the standard does not require that one can do that safely, for any specific length of time then how dare you pretend that that is not the case?

How dare you accuse me of pretending that is not the case. The standard requires that 13A sockets are capable of carrying 13A.

If normal use is not defined, how dare you accuse a manufacturer of being a cheating shyster cowboy just because they make a different assumption to you about what to take it to mean?

I am not accusing them of being cheating shyster cowboys because of any assumption that they or I might make. If their 13A sockets cannot carry 13A then they do not conform to the standard. What do you call people who make false claims about their products' conformity?

When I point out that the lack of definition of these terms, and the lack of precise requirements, could lead to a manufacturer making a socket which performs differently to how you assume it should perform, how dare you accuse me of condoning the manufacture of sub-standard products?

If you think that twin 13A socket-outlets cannot carry 2 x 13A, then you are condoning the manufacture of non-conforming products.

there can be no guarantee that whatever you have decided they must be is also what any manufacturer has decided they must be

I have not decided anything. I am stating what is in the standard.

Any discrepancy between what the maker of a socket thinks, and what the user thinks, could lead to the socket becoming too hot, and damaged, if the user loads it in excess of what the manufacturer has decided constitutes normal use. In extremis that could lead to a fire.

Quite. The manufacturers should therefore make their products conform to the standard.

So what?

So, the test is intended to verify that a twin socket-outlet will not attain excessive temperatures in normal use. The test specification is not intended to represent normal use, unless you think that normal use includes using plugs fitted with heaters, enclosing the socket-outlet in a block of wood, etc.

I will stop doing so shortly after you stop inventing requirements.

I have not invented any requirements. Please stop inventing exceptions to the requirements.

Please state what the standard actually requires, wrt the current a twin socket has to carry without overheating in normal use. Not what you assume/think/believe/wish/have invented is required - what it actually requires. If you can't then clearly you must have invented it. Were it there, it would not be an invention. If it is not there, and you claim that it is, then you have invented it.

See above.

• If you are right about it being safe to load a twin socket to 2 x 13A, and I am wrong about it being potentially dangerous, please put forward a credible mechanism by which people following my advice could end up in a possibly lethally dangerous situation.

• Please put forward an intelligent, rational, and credible explanation of how incorrect advice to not load a socket beyond the limit of its capabilities could be lethally dangerous.

As I stated earlier, it is of course quite safe to advise people to not load any socket to the limit of its capabilities. What would you advise for a single 13A socket - 10A?

However, advising people that a twin 13A socket need not be able to carry 13A could lead them to believe that they can buy cheap tat from ebay that can only carry 20A, and therefore does not conform to the relevant standard.

 

[stillp]

BAS, as I've stated previously, there is not a statement that a twin 13A socket-outlet shall be able to carry 26A. Such a statement would be incorrect, since the currents could be split unequally.

OK - if you think that that is going to be a help to you in your futile argument:

And that BAS is too stubborn to admit he's wrong

If I am wrong, then it would be very easy for you to show me, and everybody else that I am.

If I am wrong about the standard not requiring a twin socket to be able to handle 2 x 13A, then just quote the section which does contain that requirement. A screenshot will do if your file is copy protected.​

Why won't you do that, stillp?​

There are several requirements for 13A sockets to be able to carry 13A.

Please quote the one which requires one to carry 13A without attaining an excessive temperature in normal use.

Quote the one which is actually there, not one which you have invented.

I will not post extracts from any standard on a forum.

Do you really think that there is a single person here who does not know exactly why you will not?

It is because you cannot.

My copy is not copy protected, however it is watermarked.

What a truly pathetic, useless failure of an excuse.

You won't quote the requirements I have asked you countless times to quote, not because you aren't allowed to, not because you're worried about the legality of doing so - it is because you cannot, for the simple reason that they are not in there - they are your inventions.

But there are no such concerns which prevent you from answering these - so will you please do so, because I am running out of space to keep a record of your dismal, twisting, evasive, offensive and dishonest posts.

• If you are right about it being safe to load a twin socket to 2 x 13A, and I am wrong about it being potentially dangerous, please put forward a credible mechanism by which people following my advice could end up in a possibly lethally dangerous situation.

• Please put forward an intelligent, rational, and credible explanation of how incorrect advice to not load a socket beyond the limit of its capabilities could be lethally dangerous.

FGS, just look at the first line of mine that you quoted. There is no requirement for a 13A socket to carry any specified current for any specified time without overheating, other than the general requirements in Clause 4 and Sub-clause 16.1.
There. Better now?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Not true.

Yes, true.

You have repeatedly stated that it requires a twin socket to carry 2 x 13A.

The standard does not say so.

I have repeatedly stated that the standard requires 13A sockets to be able to carry 13A. Do you not believe that the standard does require that?

I do not believe that it says that a single socket has to be able to carry 13A in a way which you would accept is a requirement.

I do believe that a compliant single socket does have to be able to safely carry 13A, but the reason I believe that is not one which you like. It is a reason which you have explicitly said is not a requirement.

The standard requires 13A sockets to be able to carry 13A.

If that were true you would be able to quote the requirement.

You are not able to quote it because that is not true.

I leave it to others to judge whether your repeated assertion of something which is untrue, and which you know is untrue (i.e. you know that you cannot find that requirement in the standard) is a lie or not.

As you know, there is no requirement for a socket-outlet to be able to carry any specific current for any specific time without overheating.

But time and time again you have said that they a twin socket is capable of carrying 2 x 13A. Since you never qualified that with a duration, each time you claimed it it was a claim that the socket could do so indefinitely.

If you knew that there was no requirement for a twin socket to be able to carry 2 x 13A for any specific time without overheating, then your repeated assertions are either

a) lies

or​

b) assertions knowingly made without any regard whatsoever for the safety of people who might take you at your word, and, in fact, made without any concern about people dying because they took you at your word.

There is a requirement that they shall not attain excessive temperatures in normal use,

But those terms have no meaning - they are undefined.

Whatever you think they really mean can only be an invention.

which is verified by a test that does not simulate normal use.

You don't know that that is true. You cannot know that the test does not simulate normal use because you don't know what normal use is.

But you do know that the test is intended to represent a realistic in-use scenario.

I leave it to others to decide on the usefulness and honesty of you saying that "representing a realistic in-use scenario" is not "simulating normal use".

See above.

I have seen above.

It still leaves you with a shed-load of lethally dishonest posts to your name.

I am telling people that they must select socket-outlets that can carry the current specified in the standard.

How can you do that when there is no such specification in the standard?

If you wish to claim that there is such a specification then please quote what the words of it actually are. Not what you assume/think/believe/wish/have invented they are - what they actually are.

Otherwise their lives could indeed be put at risk.

What puts their lives at risk is mendacious advice from callous fools who think that there is nothing wrong with telling them that their socket can carry a current when they have no idea for how long it can carry it without overheating, and when they have no idea if the user of the socket and the maker of the socket has the same idea of how long it could be.

That current, for 13A sockets, is 13A.

Please quote where the standard actually says that.

Telling people that twin 13A socket-outlets need not carry more than 20A is encouraging them to select sockets that do not meet the requirements of the standard

That's a lie.

Of course, using a socket at less than its maximum allowable current is a good thing.

Jolly good.

Now, will you please answer the question.

• If I am wrong about the ability of a twin socket to carry 2 x 13A, and you are right, please put forward an intelligent, rational, and credible explanation of how incorrect advice to not load a socket to the limit of its capabilities could be lethally dangerous.

Because that is what you said:

• ...your arrogant and possibly lethally dangerous that a twin 13A socket-outlet need not be capable of supplying two 13A loads.

The standard requires that 13A sockets are capable of carrying 13A.

Please quote what those requirement actually are in the standard. Not what you assume/think/believe/wish/have invented they are - what they actually are.

I am not accusing them of being cheating shyster cowboys because of any assumption that they or I might make.

Yes you are. Several times you have said that if they don't make sockets which can do X, when the X is something which you have assumed is a requirement (because it sure as hell isn't actually in the standard) then they are cheating shyster cowboys. You simply refuse to accept that they might simply have a different idea to you about what not overheating in normal use implies wrt current carrying ability.

If their 13A sockets cannot carry 13A then they do not conform to the standard.

That would be true if that was a requirement in the standard.

If it is a requirement, then please quote what the wording of it actually is. Not what you assume/think/believe/wish/have invented it is - what it actually is.

If you think that twin 13A socket-outlets cannot carry 2 x 13A, then you are condoning the manufacture of non-conforming products.

That's another lie.

I am stating what is in the standard.

And so is that.

Of course - please feel free to show what a baseless accusation that is by quoting the words which are actually in the standard. Not words which you assume/think/believe/wish/have invented are there - what they actually are.

Why won't you do that, stillp?

The manufacturers should therefore make their products conform to the standard.

Who says they don't?

So, the test is intended to verify that a twin socket-outlet will not attain excessive temperatures in normal use. The test specification is not intended to represent normal use,

But it is intended to represent a realistic in-use scenario.

I have not invented any requirements.

Yet another lie.

Of course - please feel free to show what a baseless accusation that is by quoting the words which are actually in the standard. Not words which you assume/think/believe/wish/have invented are there - what they actually are.

Why won't you do that, stillp?

As I stated earlier, it is of course quite safe to advise people to not load any socket to the limit of its capabilities.

From your POV, when I advise people not to load a twin socket to 2 x 13A, I am indeed advising them to not load it to the limit of its capabilities.

But when I did that, you said that it was lethally dangerous advice. Was that another of your lies?

However, advising people that a twin 13A socket need not be able to carry 13A could lead them to believe that they can buy cheap tat from ebay that can only carry 20A, and therefore does not conform to the relevant standard.

Are you attempting some sort of record for the number of lies in one post?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

There is no requirement for a 13A socket to carry any specified current for any specified time without overheating, other than the general requirements in Clause 4 and Sub-clause 16.1.
There. Better now?

Getting better...

All we need now is for you to realise that in the absence of such a requirement, you telling people that of course a twin socket can carry 2 x 13A, without telling them that you have no idea for how long it can do so, and without telling them that you have no idea how hot it will get, and without telling them that not one manufacturer of compliant sockets knows those things either, is advice which is so incomplete and misleading that it becomes an untruth knowingly told in order to deceive.

Either that or you simply don't give a toss whether they load their twin socket to 2 x 13A for too long and die in a fire.

 

[stillp]

If I am wrong, then it would be very easy for you to show me, and everybody else that I am.

If I am wrong about the standard not requiring a twin socket to be able to handle 26A, then just quote the section which does contain that requirement. A screenshot will do if your file is copy protected.

Why won't you do that, stillp?

If I am wrong, then it would be very easy for you to show me, and everybody else, that I am. Just quote the text in the standard that contains the derogation from the requirement to carry 13A, that applies when two 13A sockets share a common faceplate.

You have repeatedly stated that it requires a twin socket to carry 2 x 13A.

I have repeatedly stated that the standard requires 13A sockets to carry 13A. It does not contain any derogation, derating, exception or exemption for twin 13A sockets.

I do not believe that it says that a single socket has to be able to carry 13A in a way which you would accept is a requirement.

I do believe that a compliant single socket does have to be able to safely carry 13A, but the reason I believe that is not one which you like. It is a reason which you have explicitly said is not a requirement.

What on earth are you talking about?

If that were true you would be able to quote the requirement.

You are not able to quote it because that is not true.

I am not able to post text from my copy of the standard because, as I have already told you, it is a watermarked copy. FYI the watermark reads "This copy is for the personal use of [my name] only, and is not to be reproduced in whole or in part.
I see no reason to copy out text from the standard to counter your unjust and untrue allegations.
They are described as 13A socket-outlets in the title and scope. During the tests for voltage drop, and the tests for breaking capacity of the socket contacts and the switch, as well as the test for normal operation, the socket-outlets are required to carry (and to make and break) 13A ±0,4A. There is no reduction of these requirements for twin socket-outlets.
I leave it to others to judge whether your repeated assertion of something which is untrue, and which you know is untrue (i.e. you know that you cannot find that reduction or exemption from the requirement in the standard) is a lie or not.

But those terms have no meaning - they are undefined.

Whatever you think they really mean can only be an invention.

I have not claimed to know what they mean.

You don't know that that is true. You cannot know that the test does not simulate normal use because you don't know what normal use is.

But you do know that the test is intended to represent a realistic in-use scenario.

I leave it to others to decide on the usefulness and honesty of you saying that "representing a realistic in-use scenario" is not "simulating normal use".

My apologies, I should have written that the test was not intended to simulate normal use.
I do not know that the test is intended to represent a realistic in-use scenario, and I could not know that, because it is another of your untruths. As I have already explained, the test was designed to reveal any inability of the sample to withstand the test conditions without exceeding the specified temperature rise, while achieving repeatable results across all test houses within a reasonable time. Does a realistic in-use scenario include embedding the socket-outlet in a block of wood, fitting heaters in the plugs, and wiring in such a way as to minimise heat transfer away from the socket-outlet, while deliberately overloading one of the outlets? It certainly doesn't in my household.

It still leaves you with a shed-load of lethally dishonest posts to your name.

It is not "lethally dishonest" to point out that 13A socket-outlets have to withstand 13A. It is potentially lethally dishonest to claim that 13A socket-outlets that cannot withstand 13A are acceptable.

How can you do that when there is no such specification in the standard?

There is. It is 13A. There is no exception for the sockets that form twin socket-outlets.

That's a lie.

If you say so. I don't think it is, but perhaps I don't have your experience of lying.

Now, will you please answer the question.

• If I am wrong about the ability of a twin socket to carry 2 x 13A, and you are right, please put forward an intelligent, rational, and credible explanation of how incorrect advice to not load a socket to the limit of its capabilities could be lethally dangerous.

Because that is what you said:

Can you really not see the difference between advising people not to load a socket to the limit of its capabilities and advising people that 13A sockets need not be capable of carrying 13A when two of them share a common faceplate?

everal times you have said that if they don't make sockets which can do X, when the X is something which you have assumed is a requirement (because it sure as hell isn't actually in the standard) then they are cheating shyster cowboys. You simply refuse to accept that they might simply have a different idea to you about what not overheating in normal use implies wrt current carrying ability.

No, that is another untruth. I have not made any accusations that are based on any assumptions, about overheating in normal use or anything else. Please stop saying that I have.

Who says they don't?

You do, by saying that twin 13A socket-outlets cannot carry 13A concurrently through both outlets.

But it is intended to represent a realistic in-use scenario.

What gives you that idea? Those words do not appear in the standard, and the test conditions are not representative of anything a householder is likely to do.

please feel free to show what a baseless accusation that is by quoting the words which are actually in the standard. Not words which you assume/think/believe/wish/have invented are there - what they actually are.

Why won't you do that, stillp?

Please feel free to justify your accusations by quoting where the standard gives an exemption, exception, derating, derogation, or whatever from the 13A requirements that applies when two 13A sockets share a common faceplate.
Why won't you do that, BAS?

From your POV, when I advise people not to load a twin socket to 2 x 13A, I am indeed advising them to not load it to the limit of its capabilities.

But when I did that, you said that it was lethally dangerous advice. Was that another of your lies?

No I did not. I said that your potentially lethally dangerous advice was you promulgation of the lie that twin 13A socket-outlets cannot withstand 13A concurrently from each outlet. Those from reputable manufacturers certainly can.

Are you attempting some sort of record for the number of lies in one post?

No, I would not be so presumptious as to challenge your leadership.

All we need now is for you to realise that in the absence of such a requirement, you telling people that of course a twin socket can carry 2 x 13A, without telling them that you have no idea for how long it can do so, and without telling them that you have no idea how hot it will get, and without telling them that not one manufacturer of compliant sockets knows those things either, is advice which is so incomplete and misleading that it becomes an untruth knowingly told in order to deceive.

No different from telling people that twin 13A socket-outlets cannot carry 13A from each outlet, and therefore it is acceptable for such products to be manufactured, purchased, and installed.

Either that or you simply don't give a toss whether they load their twin socket to 2 x 13A for too long and die in a fire.

It is precisely because I care about that and other risks that I object to your promulgation of the lie that twin 13A socket-outlets need not be capable of carrying 13A from each outlet.

Now, let me ask you again: where are the words in
BS 1363-2:1995+A4:2012
13 A plugs, socket-outlets, adaptors and connection units. Specification for 13 A switched and unswitched socket-outlets
that state that 13A socket-outlets need not be able to carry 13A when two of them share a common faceplate?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

FYI - as it's not an accusation I make lightly, my reasoning:

Telling people that twin 13A socket-outlets need not carry more than 20A is encouraging them to select sockets that do not meet the requirements of the standard

I'm telling you that you must not tell people that a twin socket can carry 2 x 13A, on the grounds that as you don't know how safely it can do it, and as you don't know whether a user's expectation of how long it could do that or how hot it should get matches what the maker has decided it should perform like you could be leading them into a gap between expectations where serious overheating and damage might occur.

It is absolutely impossible for someone who is not insane or so mentally defective that they would need 24x7 care to really believe that warning someone that a twin socket might not be able to safely carry 2 x 13A encourages them to select sockets that do not meet the requirements of the standard. Unless you want to claim either insanity or severe mental deficiency you simply cannot believe that if I were to say to Joe Bloggs "Don't try to take 2 x 13A from a twin socket as it might not be safe" he is going to take that as an encouragement to select (GNH, anyway) a non-BS 1363 compliant socket.

You cannot believe it. You know it is untrue. It's a lie.

If you think that twin 13A socket-outlets cannot carry 2 x 13A, then you are condoning the manufacture of non-conforming products.

Same sort of reasoning - there is no way anyone could possibly believe that a warning that the standard does not require a twin socket to be safe at 2 x 13A equates to condoning the manufacture of non-conforming products'

You cannot believe it. You know it is untrue. It's a lie.

However, advising people that a twin 13A socket need not be able to carry 13A could lead them to believe that they can buy cheap tat from ebay that can only carry 20A, and therefore does not conform to the relevant standard.

That's basically the same lie as the first one.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

And again you come up with the utterly stupid idea that a standard requires something to do absolutely everything that it doesn't say it doesn't have to to, and that if I cannot quote a part which says "a twin socket does not have to play jingle bells" then the standard must require it.

Again you refuse to show where any of your claims of what the standard requires actually are, and again you expect people to believe your pathetic, snivelling, wriggling, frightened little excuse that you may not do so because your copy is watermarked.

Again you repeat the lie that because I warn people not to rely on a twin socket being able to handle 13A through both outlets I am condoning the manufacture of non-conformant products.

Again you repeat the lie that warning people not to rely on a twin socket being able to handle 13A through both outlets is lethally dangerous.

The time for debate is over. You are devoid of reason, common sense and honesty.

This is the way it is going to go.

EITHER you show where the standard REQUIRES a twin socket to carry 2 x 13A safely - and I mean actually requires it, not your "I-say-it-infers-it-because-it-doesn't-say-it-doesn't-have-to" bullshit

OR

You stop telling your lies.

 

[DetlefSchmitz]

"I-say-it-infers-it-because-it-doesn't-say-it-doesn't-have-to" bullshit

Implies...

 

[stillp]

Wrong yet again BAS. 13A socket-outlets are required to carry 13A, whether you like it or not. There are different requirements for the total current for triple, quadruple, etc, socket-outlets, but not for twin. Therefore, unless you can find an exemption to support your claim, (clue: you can't) those requirements apply to each 13A socket that is either a single or part of a twin.

you simply cannot believe that if I were to say to Joe Bloggs "Don't try to take 2 x 13A from a twin socket as it might not be safe" he is going to take that as an encouragement to select (GNH, anyway) a non-BS 1363 compliant socket.

That is correct. However, the often-repeated untruth that twin 13A socket-outlets need not be able to carry 2 x 13A concurrently could well lead Joe Bloggs to select a socket whose manufacturer has not constructed it to meet the requirements of BS1363.

you expect people to believe your pathetic, snivelling, wriggling, frightened little excuse that you may not do so because your copy is watermarked

Yes, I do. It is one of the conditions that I accept, and I have to give an undertaking not to reproduce, in whole or in part, those standards. I abide by the undertakings I give - it's called having a sense of ethics. You might like to look that up in your dictionary.
In any case, I have told you the location of the requirements, you can look them up yourself.

Same sort of reasoning - there is no way anyone could possibly believe that a warning that the standard does not require a twin socket to be safe at 2 x 13A equates to condoning the manufacture of non-conforming products'

But the standard does require a twin socket to be safe, and it does require each outlet to carry 13A, so stating otherwise is clearly condoning the manufacture, selection, and installation of sub-standard products.

Again you repeat the lie that warning people not to rely on a twin socket being able to handle 13A through both outlets is lethally dangerous.

Another untruth. I have stated that telling people that the standard does not require twin socket-outlets to be able to carry 13A is potentially lethally dangerous. I am aware of at least one occasion when such a sub-standard socket 'exploded' (I don't know the exact failure mode, I'll try to find the report) when a second 3kW heater was connected to it. Such an explosion could be lethal.

The time for debate is over.

There hasn't been any debate. I have told you what the standard requires. Repeatedly. You have asserted something that is not stated in the standard. Repeatedly.

EITHER you show where the standard REQUIRES a twin socket to carry 2 x 13A safely - and I mean actually requires it, not your "I-say-it-infers-it-because-it-doesn't-say-it-doesn't-have-to" bullshit

No, either you show where the standard states that 13A sockets need not be able to carry 13A just because two of them share a common faceplate - and actually states that, not your "there's a figure of 20A in the test, so I say that is all a twin socket needs to carry" bullshit.

OR

You stop telling your lies.

I have no need to stop. It is not I that is lying.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Wrong yet again BAS. 13A socket-outlets are required to carry 13A, whether you like it or not. There are different requirements for the total current for triple, quadruple, etc, socket-outlets, but not for twin. Therefore, unless you can find an exemption to support your claim, (clue: you can't) those requirements apply to each 13A socket that is either a single or part of a twin.

There is no such requirement.

STOP LYING.

That is correct. However, the often-repeated untruth that twin 13A socket-outlets need not be able to carry 2 x 13A concurrently could well lead Joe Bloggs to select a socket whose manufacturer has not constructed it to meet the requirements of BS1363.

Yeah, right.

And when I warn people not to buy cheap tat on eBay directly from China because it might not be safe, that's going to lead Joe Bloggs to select cheap tat from a manufacturer who has not constructed it properly?

STOP LYING.

Yes, I do.

Then you're a fool.

It is one of the conditions that I accept, and I have to give an undertaking not to reproduce, in whole or in part, those standards. I abide by the undertakings I give - it's called having a sense of ethics. You might like to look that up in your dictionary.

How jolly handy for you, given that you are lying about what the standard requires.

STOP LYING.

In any case, I have told you the location of the requirements, you can look them up yourself.

There's nothing there about a twin socket having to be safe at 2 x 13A.

STOP LYING.

But the standard does require a twin socket to be safe, and it does require each outlet to carry 13A,

Not concurrently.

STOP LYING.

so stating otherwise is clearly condoning the manufacture, selection, and installation of sub-standard products.

That is a lie.

STOP LYING.

I have stated that telling people that the standard does not require twin socket-outlets to be able to carry 13A is potentially lethally dangerous.

It is not. That is a lie.

STOP LYING.

I am aware of at least one occasion when such a sub-standard socket 'exploded' (I don't know the exact failure mode, I'll try to find the report) when a second 3kW heater was connected to it. Such an explosion could be lethal.

FFS.

So which is the lethally dangerous lie? The one which advised people that they could have 2 x 3kW loads at the same time?

Or the one which advises them that there's no guarantee of that?

STOP LYING.

I have told you what the standard requires. Repeatedly.

No, you have repeatedly told me that it contains something it does not.

STOP LYING.

You have asserted something that is not stated in the standard. Repeatedly.

Almost. I have repeatedly asserted that there is something not stated in the standard.

STOP LYING.

It is not I that is lying.

And there is another one.


STOP LYING.

 

[stillp]

So, given that you have absolutely no evidence to support your assertion, you resort to the usual childish and unnecessary insults.

And when I warn people not to buy cheap tat on eBay directly from China because it might not be safe, that's going to lead Joe Bloggs to select cheap tat from a manufacturer who has not constructed it properly?

No, when you give that warning it will not encourage JB to buy sub-standard products.
However, when you state that a product need not comply with the requirements of its standard because you cannot understand the way the standard is written, you might encourage him to share your misunderstanding.

There's nothing there about a twin socket having to be safe at 2 x 13A.

Yes there is. The requirements apply to all products within the scope of the standard, unless an exception is stated. 13A sockets are required to be safe.

Not concurrently.

It does not need to. The requirements apply to all products within the scope of the standard.

So which is the lethally dangerous lie? The one which advised people that they could have 2 x 3kW loads at the same time?

Or the one which advises them that there's no guarantee of that?

You are getting confused again. You stated that twin socket-outlets cannot carry 13A through both outlets concurrently. I have stated that if they can't then they do not conform to the standard. I have not advised anyone to use a twin socket outlet in any particular manner.

No, you have repeatedly told me that it contains something it does not.

No, I haven't.

I have repeatedly asserted that there is something not stated in the standard.

So have I. I have stated that there is no exception in the standard to the requirement for 13A socket-outlets (not "some") to carry 13A. However you still seem to believe there is such an exception.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

STOP LYING