4mm ring

[EFLImpudence]

Well, exposed-c-ps are such because they are exposed and might become live because of loose connections or other faults.

 

[JohnW2]

Well, exposed-c-ps are such because they are exposed and might become live because of loose connections or other faults.

Fair enough, but I still don't understand what that has got to do with SWA armour, since there are no connections within the cable that could 'become loose'.

Furthermore, I presume that a metal enclosure containing what would otherwise be exposed (or even just 'single insulated')live parts would count as an exposed-c-p even if there were no connections within it which could 'become loose' (e.g. if single-insulated live conductors simply 'passed through' it).

Kind Regards, John

 

[EFLImpudence]

So, in your opinion, it is absolutely impossible for any one to install SWA in such a way that the armour would be classed as an exposed-c-p

 

[JohnW2]

So, in your opinion, it is absolutely impossible for any one to install SWA in such a way that the armour would be classed as an exposed-c-p

Well, as I said, so long as the outer sheath is intact, the armour is not 'exposed', so it can't possibly qualify as an 'exposed-c-p'!

I suppose that if it were glanded, in the usual way, with metal glands, then those glands would be closer to being 'regardable' as exposed-c-ps- but it the OP's case, I think we have been told that the armour has been 'trimmrd right back', so even that is probably not an issue.

But, to answer your question, yes, I would say that it is impossible for something which is not exposed to be an 'exposd-c-p' - so that would include the armour of (intact) SWA, per se - the only possible discussion being about any metal glands that are involved.

Kind Regards, John

 

[pete01]

This thread confuses me, (easily done)
Steel wire armour needs earthing, weather the outer sheath is damaged or not.
What if it gets damaged you gonna pop back and earth it?

Then if you decided to fit the correct swa glands they would need to be accessible.

Basically it's the wrong cable for the job

 

[sparkwright]

The glands will need to be accessible (I think)

I don't see why glands need to be accessible, after all, couplers on galv conduit don't need to be accessible, so what's the difference?

 

[pete01]

I don't see why glands need to be accessible, after all, couplers on galv conduit don't need to be accessible, so what's the difference?

For inspection purposes, I'll admit maybe not in this case as its 3 core.
But whichever way we look at it it's still the wrong cable.

 

[JohnW2]

Steel wire armour needs earthing, weather the outer sheath is damaged or not.

That may be your view but, as you've seen, there is scope for debate.

What if it gets damaged you gonna pop back and earth it?

Even if the outer sheath gets damaged, there are still two layers of insulating material between the armour than anything live - which is no different from the millions of Class II items out there.

In any event, the "what if it gets damaged?" question could be applied to anything - but we can't attempt to take measures to protect against 'anything that might happen'. What if the lead of one of your appliances gets damaged - should there be a requirement for far more than two layers of insulating material to address that possibility?

Then if you decided to fit the correct swa glands they would need to be accessible.

I've previously covered that. Since the armour of the OP's cable has been 'stripped well back', he's not going to be able too use a metal gland in a matter that results in it being in continuity with the armour. As for 'need to be accessible', that does not necessarily mean 'touchable#. The terminals of electrical accessories are required to be accessible (for inspection and testing) but certainly aren't allowed to be touchable (without unscrewing the face plate/cover).

Basically it's the wrong cable for the job

It's 'unnecessary' for the job, but I still don't really see a problem in having (unearthed) steel armour in a cable that would be acceptable and safely 'touchable' even without the armour.

My wife was doing some vacuuming this afternoon. At one point, the cable of her machine came in contact with a (not earthed metal coffee table. Is that any different from what we are talking about?

Kind Regards, John

 

[pete01]

My wife was doing some vacuuming this afternoon. At one point, the cable of her machine came in contact with a (not earthed metal coffee table. Is that any different from what we are talking about?

If the coffee table had live cables running inside it would be the same and it would be earthed.

You do things your way and I'll do them properly (wink face) cant work out how to do an emoji, I'm so old lol.

This week I'm installing some swa to feed some 63 amp machines I'm gonna throw the glands away and use stuffing glands now cheers John.

 

[JohnW2]

If the coffee table had live cables running inside it would be the same and it would be earthed.

What's the difference between live conductors within the coffee table and live conductors within a cable which is lying on the coffe table?

You do things your way and I'll do them properly (wink face)

It's not a matter of 'how I do things'. As I've implied, I would not install SWA 'unnecessarily'. However, if someone has installed SWA in such a way that the armour is 'cut back' and can neither be touched nor come into contact with body of any metal gland, then I would day that one could regard the cable as not having armour.

.... (wink face) cant work out how to do an emoji, I'm so old lol.

Probably not as old as me However, if you click on the one at the top of the message composing window, you'll find hundreds of emoticons to choose from. Alternatively, if you prefer to 'just type', then type (after a space) 'colon dash right-bracket' and you'll (sometimes!) get a choice of about three, the first of which is a wink, like this More generally,, try these ...

Kind Regards, John

 

[pete01]

What's the difference between live conductors within the coffee table and live conductors within a cable which is lying on the coffe table?

People who make metal coffee tables don't expect them to come live, people who make light up coffee tables do and so earth them, that's the difference

 

[JohnW2]

People who make metal coffee tables don't expect them to come live, people who make light up coffee tables do and so earth them, that's the difference

I think you're probably missing the point - or, perhaps, trying to imagine a non-existent difference between things which are deliberately or accidentally 'associated with electricity'.

If a touchable metal object is 'two layers of insulation away from an electrically live conductor', it doesn't make of jot of difference whether or not the object was 'intended' to have anything to do with electricity.

Kind Regards, John

 

[pete01]

I think you're probably missing the point - or, perhaps, trying to imagine a non-existent difference between things which are deliberately or accidentally 'associated with electricity'.

If a touchable metal object is 'two layers of insulation away from an electrically live conductor', it doesn't make of jot of difference whether or not the object was 'intended' to have anything to do with electricity.

Kind Regards, John

I do get the point even if it's gone off track a bit.

So why do we get an earth ring (banjo) in a pack of glands if the steel doesn't need to be earthed, this is news to me but good news as my job just got easier.

 

[JohnW2]

I do get the point even if it's gone off track a bit.

Fair enough

So why do we get an earth ring (banjo) in a pack of glands if the steel doesn't need to be earthed, this is news to me but good news as my job just got easier.

... because if SWA is being used because it needs to be SWA, then the armour MUST be earthed.

As we are agreed, in the OP's case, there is no need for it to be SWA, hence no need to have earthed armour.

Kind Regards, John

 

[pete01]

Fair enough

... because if SWA is being used because it needs to be SWA, then the armour MUST be earthed.

As we are agreed, in the OP's case, there is no need for it to be SWA, hence no need to have earthed armour.

Kind Regards, John

Fair enough John I don't disagree but its not something I would do.

It's been a good debate I've enjoyed myself (I know I need a life haha)