A good kicking

[noodlz]

Its estimated 10 women will die in the UK this football season with raised domestic violence, all after football matches, police have opened up a speacial unit to deal with all the assaults indoors.

Niether football nor the alcohol industry provide any cash for the casualtys of thier existance.

had to mention it, saw the info on it yesterday, most upsetting thought deserves a post.

OJ

Fair shout, but bit rich coming from you, even if you were "innocent"...what you up to nowadays?

hhhmm well you wont be surprised when i say, i have no ideal what you are on about, but back to football.

it should be made a closed event no spectaters, no tv, just results announced. untill people learn to behave.

Its sad as thier are people who realy enjoy the sport and every sunday 25 yards from my home friendly matches are played.
But as they say "its always the few that spoil it for the rest."

Maybe in ten years when teh novelty of yelling at an announcement comes over the TV, it can be reopened to spectators.

It might work it might not, but sure thing is, it fuels violence, why did they ban raves, but let mudering weapon carrying nutters in a closed ground with children in it.

OJ

Well, I'm glad you appear a more reasonable person than your namesake, even if you don't see the reference

Yes, you are obviously right...ban football until everyone behaves like they were at a vicar's tea party, but while we're at it, it really is about time we banned kitchen knives as far too many people have accidents with them and therefore quite clearly don't know how to use them and others use them to injure others deliberately! Can you imagine a hotheaded nutter like Gordon Ramsay getting his hands on one
What d'you reckon, more people killed with football as the weapon or the common kitchen knife?

We'll have support:

http://news.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=579102005

Until we have zero accidents they should not be allowed.

Come to think of it, we should also ban paper......I got a nasty paper cut the other day and it was more painful than when I was stabbed with a kitchen knife at a football match

 

[ban-all-sheds]

IMHO it wasn't necessary, or particularly effective, for you to be sarcastic in seeking clarification of that point.

OK - I'll avoid the sarcasm

What is certain is that football is enjoyed in harmless ways by a larger proportion of the population that any other sport; the same cannot be said of handguns.

What proportion of the shooting fraternity have gone non-harmless and shot people?

What proportion of the football watching fraternity have engaged in violence on the streets, in pubs and clubs, in their homes and at grounds?

Does the proportion matter more than the absolute numbers?

Michael Ryan and Thomas Hamilton together killed fewer people than the Liverpool fans did at Heysel.

 

[Softus]

What proportion of the shooting fraternity have gone non-harmless and shot people?

I really don't know.

What proportion of the football watching fraternity have engaged in violence on the streets, in pubs and clubs, in their homes and at grounds?

I really don't know.

Does the proportion matter more than the absolute numbers?

No. They're just different ways of expressing a measurement.

Michael Ryan and Thomas Hamilton together killed fewer people than the Liverpool fans did at Heysel.

I take your word for it, since it seems more than plausible. My understanding of the Heysel incident, which was preventable, is that many factors were contributory:

1. Misbehaviour, that started before the match began, procedeed unchecked during the match.

2. The stadium included terraces for standing supporters - to my knowledge these have been replaced by seating in all stadiums.

3. Part of the stadium structure was dilapidated, and its collapse was instrumental in the injuries and fatalities suffered.

4. Objects that were capable of being used as missiles were not confiscated.

What I don't see, yet, is how it can be argued that the banning of handguns is a valid precedent for banning football, which seems to be what you were advocating earlier.

Football invariably generates high emotion, and becomes a dangerous cocktail when combined with alcohol abuse and mob behaviour. However, I don't see historical disasters as a good reason to ban football, since many valuable lessons have been learned, but it's an inconsolable tragedy that it took such a thing as the Heysel disaster to make changes happen.

Regarding handguns, each one is inherently dangerous, needing only one loaded gun, one victim, one hand and one accidental pull of a trigger to instantly become a large problem.

 

[Softus]

Niether football nor the alcohol industry provide any cash for the casualtys of thier existance.

Maybe not, but clubs have been forced to rebuild and change stadiums to make them safer.

it should be made a closed event no spectaters, no tv, just results announced. untill people learn to behave.

Actually, when you control the allocation of tickets, frisk every spectator at the entry to the ground, confiscate all dangerous objects, force everyone to sit down, and make the walkways between seat rows extremely difficult to walk along, people actually do behave.

Add to all that the clever use of the PA (to play cheery tunes at a volume that drowns out all of the potentially provocative chants), and the abundant use of properly-equipped police, and you have yourself one trouble-free afternoon of enjoyable sport.

 

[ninebob]

Actually, when you control the allocation of tickets, frisk every spectator at the entry to the ground, confiscate all dangerous objects, force everyone to sit down, and make the walkways between seat rows extremely difficult to walk along, people actually do behave.

Add to all that the clever use of the PA (to play cheery tunes at a volume that drowns out all of the potentially provocative chants), and the abundant use of properly-equipped police, and you have yourself one trouble-free afternoon of enjoyable sport.

I disagree. With the factors you have just mentioned, you might be able to control the situation immaculately within the ground, but afterwards?

I'm with ban on this one, I personally would like to see football banned, not that it will ever happen.

Example: a few years ago when I lived in Grantham, the town's football team somehow got itself into a very rare situation where they had a home game against a much bigger club (I don't recall the league or the team), which brought a large number of away supporters to the town. The police ordered every pub between the football stadium and the station in the town centre to close for a good few hours after the game, for fear of alcohol-fuelled trouble. Why, I wonder? (surely not an unfounded worry.)

Football just seems to me like a sport which brings out the very worst machismo thuggery amongst it's supporters. I've never heard of "sychronised swimming hoogilans" or even "tennis hooligans".

Yes, you can blame the alcohol, but how many other sports bring so many like-minded people together in a drinking environment leading to that kind of behaviour?

 

[ninebob]

What is certain is that football is enjoyed in harmless ways by a larger proportion of the population that any other sport; the same cannot be said of handguns.

Pickiness in the wording, perhaps, but I would argue that a larger proportion of football fans "celebrate" their game in harmful ways than fans of any other sport.

 

[Softus]

I disagree. With the factors you have just mentioned, you might be able to control the situation immaculately within the ground, but afterwards?

Well you might have just answered your own question - are there any particular post-match incidents that you're referring to?

I'm with ban on this one...

Do you mean when he wrote this?

It's nothing to do with football, and everything to do with the fact that for a significant minority of people alcohol is a drug which makes them irrational and violent...

...or this?

They should just ban football.

Example: ....The police ordered every pub between the football stadium and the station in the town centre to close for a good few hours after the game, for fear of alcohol-fuelled trouble. Why, I wonder? (surely not an unfounded worry.)

Again - you've answered the question yourself - "for fear of alcohol-fuelled trouble.". But what's wrong with them doing that?

Football just seems to me like a sport which brings out the very worst machismo thuggery amongst it's supporters.

Indeed so; when it does. But not when it doesn't.

Yes, you can blame the alcohol, but how many other sports bring so many like-minded people together in a drinking environment leading to that kind of behaviour?

I don't blame the alcohol - I blame the parents. Whereas b-a-s appears to blame the alcohol - I assume you agree with him on this?

...we have a culture of drinking to excess in this country.

 

[joe-90]

As Desmond Morris said in his book 'Manwatching' :

"I went to a fight - and some football broke out.





joe

 

[Simon345]

I can go to watch the football and have a few beers and enjoy it, even after a few too many beers neither my mates or myself go looking for trouble, we just enjoy the atmosphere. Yet at the same time 20 minutes into the England v Sweden game fighting kicked off the other side of the pub for no apparent reason. It's the people that are the idiots and the drink makes them worse.

 

[jbonding]

Most of the football hooligans i know (CITY & UTD) dont go anywhere near the game, its organised from the pubs. Most are Banned and dont follow football just the violence and a good ****-up. So banning football matches LOL would increase violence, were do you go to watch the match if you cant get a ticket

 

[ban-all-sheds]

What I don't see, yet, is how it can be argued that the banning of handguns is a valid precedent for banning football, which seems to be what you were advocating earlier.

It is valid, if the precedent was soundly based, i.e. that it's OK to destroy leisure and commercial interests to potentially save a small number of lives.

If it's not OK to do that then it's not OK to ban fotball and it was not OK to ban handguns.

 

[markie]

Why are people talking stupid, as in banning football, but not banning the so-called sport that is shooting. they should make it against the law, and get rid of every gun in the land, there's no need for anyone the have a gun.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

There is no need for anyone to own a football.

There is no need for anyone to play football.

There is no need for anyone to watch football.

 

[markie]

There is no need for anyone to own a football.

There is no need for anyone to play football.

There is no need for anyone to watch football.

Now your being silly,

What would you rather have, a group of kids hanging around your door step with a football, or a group of kids hanging around with a hand gun, hmmm .. let me think,

Shooting is not a sport, nor is hunting, nobody would give a dam if it was outlawed apart from them freaks who think they are upper-class.

" I say Charles lets kill some defenceless animals today, or we can go and practise in my shooting range"

 

[ban-all-sheds]

What would you rather have, a group of kids hanging around your door step with a football, or a group of kids hanging around with a hand gun, hmmm .. let me think,

If you remember how, think about the fact that shooting sports being legal does not equate to groups of kids hanging round with handguns being legal.

Shooting is not a sport, nor is hunting, nobody would give a dam if it was outlawed apart from them freaks who think they are upper-class.

You really are spectacularly ignorant, aren't you.

I now see why you have the signature that you do.