Advice appreciated regarding job price rate

[noseall]

It’s crap for you as a builder but honest for the buyer.

Day rate, on average is poor value for the customer.

You don’t have the courage to say to people I charge 400 a day so instead when you see a job that will take ten days you price it at 4K

I price all the extras in, on every job per hour. They get materials at cost. Your post is nonsense.

If you do the job and it takes longer then your ten day estimate you go cap in hand back to the client to say unforeseen plumbing electric problems that no one could have priced. I need another £1,200. Knowing it will take a further three days.

If the work is not included in the (explicit) pricing schedule, or included in the (explicit) drawings, then yes. A discussion is had and the extras work goes ahead as per agreement.

That’s the way it goes. Great for builder to hide between price job and non disclosure
Of day rate

More nonsense.

 

[johnny2007]

Give me a break. Most tradesman want cash in hand for the price or they say you need to add 20% for vat (even though they get a tax saving and in some cases without a vat number!)

Don’t even get me started on tradesmen adding a 20% margin on material or lazy plumbers expecting £400 for a 9-3 day and expecting to take the scrap metal as a bonus

All other industries need to pay for uniform and travel (by train , taxi or chauffeur)

No wonder ths industry attracts cowboys who want to make a quick buck some of whom have just picked up a paint brush but describe themselves as skilled multi talented superstars !

£100 for changing a kitchen tap is a 30 minute job !

I've always paid tax.
The only cash in hands jobs I've done are small jobs for elderly people where they just pay me a "drink", or sometimes just tea and cakes.
What you call lazy plumbers (and I am not one) are indeed heating specialist, gas safe registered who take full responsibility for what they do.
I know of a jack of all trades who fitted a tap and next day the house got flooded with hot water.
Don't remember how it ended, but he was in a spot of bother for quite a long time because of court proceedings.
If people don't want to pay the expertise of certain trades, they can (and do) go on the cheap.
This usually ends up badly.
Although even paying over the top is not guarantee that everything will be ok.

 

[JackK]

Would take a brave man to admit to tax evasion on a public forum

Tell me about the experienced trade man operating through a limited company boasting of a 2 million pound public liability insurance but with negative shareholder assets on their balance sheet

When they install the tap on a price job quickly and flood the house do they pay for the damage or let the company get sued and then liquidated for no recovery

Funny how cleaners to solicitors publish their hourly rates. It’s only building work which requires great skill to do price work only!

 

[noseall]

Would take a brave man to admit to tax evasion on a public forum

Tell me about the experienced trade man operating through a limited company boasting of a 2 million pound public liability insurance but with negative shareholder assets on their balance sheet

When they install the tap on a price job quickly and flood the house do they pay for the damage or let the company get sued and then liquidated for no recovery

Funny how cleaners to solicitors publish their hourly rates. It’s only building work which requires great skill to do price work only!

What has a company's tax liability or PL insurance got to do with the merits of day rate v's price work? They are not mutually exclusive. Seems like you have a rather bizarre axe to grind.

 

[JackK]

What has a company's tax liability or PL insurance got to do with the merits of day rate v's price work? They are not mutually exclusive. Seems like you have a rather bizarre axe to grind.

The explanation above that paying a pro results in guaranteed work. I’m pointing out it does not

This is a never ending topic. I’m out. You know my views on the day rate vs price work

For more fun tune in to m j tiff lumping on YouTube. Every job is a complaint and a pain and he is a “professional”

 

[johnny2007]

Ok, imagine this:
I am building a small extension at the front of the house, commonly called "a porch".
I have to quote you, so I give you a choice:
1. Full and final price all inclusive £8k.
2. Pay for material £2k + other expenses (diesel, running errands, tools wear and tear, insurance, etc.) £2k + day rate for 2 people £350 × whatever it takes (might be 2 weeks, 3 weeks, 4, 5, 6 weeks, etc.). This depends on weather because if it rains hard and we can't work, you still pay us to be there.
If material is not delivered on time and we're stuck waiting, you pay us.
Every time we feel like having a break, you pay us.
Every time some neighbours have a chit chat, you pay us.
Plaster drying? You pay us while we polish every brick outside and fix that micro imperfection on the pointing.
Silicone has run out...Let me go to the hardware store and get some, in the mean time guess what??? Yes, you're paying us.

Now, does the fix £8k quote sound more appealing?

 

[Diver Fred]

When I was in my 'professional' career and my paid 'day rate' was £133 per day - company internal costing £880* to cover all overheads - that was 2004.
*I wasn't supposed to know that but when I complained about my salary level in comparison to others in the staff I was called into the bosses office and saw some paperwork I should not have seen.
After I left FTE I spent a few months contracting in my profession before I got fed up with 12 or 13 hour days including the travelling my day rate was £500+ per day including all costs involved with work (Travel, parking, computer & software, accountant/Umbrella company**).
** Wished I hadn't bothered with the Umbrella Company - cost me more than doing my own books and accountant.

My dad was self employed - he would never charge by the hour - his Day rate*** for a full day, 60% for half day, 40% for 1/4 day or less.
*** charged for when Subing on site or on materials supplied jobs. Otherwise it was normally piece work.

 

[russellsmiler]

the simple reason a lot of operators like day rate is that it allows them to operate without fear and risk...lets be realistic if you are quoting say 15K for a customers garden patio and say garden shed slab, then your going to need a few quid behind you to get and keep it rolling to a stage where you may ask for a valuation etc....lets face it an outfit that will take on decent work at a set price have usually grown a pair of bank balances!!

 

[blup]

Cant think of any circumstances where a day rate would be preferable over the certainty of a fixed price for building an extension. As for the comparison solicitors, well its like writing a blank cheque. IME builders do make on things like provisions for flooring etc which aren't always known at the time the builder is appointed.

Blup

 

[JackK]

Ok, imagine this:
I am building a small extension at the front of the house, commonly called "a porch".
I have to quote you, so I give you a choice:
1. Full and final price all inclusive £8k.
2. Pay for material £2k + other expenses (diesel, running errands, tools wear and tear, insurance, etc.) £2k + day rate for 2 people £350 × whatever it takes (might be 2 weeks, 3 weeks, 4, 5, 6 weeks, etc.). This depends on weather because if it rains hard and we can't work, you still pay us to be there.
If material is not delivered on time and we're stuck waiting, you pay us.
Every time we feel like having a break, you pay us.
Every time some neighbours have a chit chat, you pay us.
Plaster drying? You pay us while we polish every brick outside and fix that micro imperfection on the pointing.
Silicone has run out...Let me go to the hardware store and get some, in the mean time guess what??? Yes, you're paying us.

Now, does the fix £8k quote sound more appealing?

What happens if when digging the porch or extension you find tree roots or gas pipes or drains that mean you cannot dig down and can’t meet building regs?

Do you go back to client and ask for more?

I’m not going to continue on this never ending topic. As a customer I prefer someone to tell me it will take ten days for two people and the price and I expect 9-5 hard graft for my hard earned money

If others are willing to pay £300 for you to skilfully take charge of the situation and courageously evacuate the area before navigating through molecules of air to artfully change a light bulb in thirty minutes then that’s great news for you

 

[noseall]

I’m not going to continue on this never ending topic.

Lol, you said that once already.

 

[noseall]

What happens if when digging the porch or extension you find tree roots or gas pipes or drains that mean you cannot dig down and can’t meet building regs?

Do you go back to client and ask for more?

All ground works are subject to discovery. Yes, asking for more happens often, especially when the drawing says 1m and building control ask for 1.5.m.

 

[johnny2007]

What happens if when digging the porch or extension you find tree roots or gas pipes or drains that mean you cannot dig down and can’t meet building regs?

Do you go back to client and ask for more?

No, as all traders who've spent 5 minutes in the job, you'll have clauses in the quote and one of them is "subject to ground conditions".
Also, anyone in the game 5 minutes will insist on obtaining service plans from various providers.
If not possible the quote will include a clause in the eventuality that surprises are found during the excavation.
That's all subject to the builder having been in business for at least 5 minutes.