Am I allowed to disconect/connect a cooker in someone house?

[mattysupra]

hi all, i have come across a problem that is now starting to cost me money!

When fitting flooring in customers houses i always tell them to get a spark in to remove the cooker or do it themselves if they know what there doing. I personally advice them to do this rather than myself incase there is a problem etc and im not a sparky!

However, over the last year or so i have been losing loads of work i quote on because the 'other' floorlayers that quote will remove the cooker for them.

Now i don't have a problem with doing it myself but i personally don't think its professional of myself to be removing and refitting cookers when im not qualified to do so. After all, do you lot fit new carpets etc while installing a few light switches ?

The thing that really pee's me off is when i go back to the house to do other work and question why they didn't go with my quote for the kitchen flooring? They always reply that i was the same price but after paying a spark it puts another 100 quid or so on a 400 quid bill, plus there is more hassle for them when the 'other 'company just got on and did it themselves.

So am i allowed to unwire/rewire the cookers for my customers even tho i have to offical training or certificates to say im compertent?

 

[ColJack]

After all, do you lot fit new carpets etc while installing a few light switches ?

no but we quite often pull back the carpets and re-fit them when doing electrical work that involves working under the floors..

we also remove and re-fit laminate flooring if needs be.

if you remove and re-fit the cooke, you then become liable for the connection you just made.. does your insurance cover you for this if the house burns down?

I suppose you could ask the same of us if someone trips and falls down the stairs because we've had the landing carpet up..

 

[mattysupra]

i dont care what you do with flooring mate LOL! Im more concerned on what im allowed to do

But am i allowed to unwire/rewire the cooker? im sure i can get it added to my insurance but if i need to be qualified to do this simple job i would like to put a comment in my quote for instance. Something stating that the customer is responsable for removing the cooker and that floorlayers are not unless they hold the correct certificate/qualification etc to do the work .

end of the day its more work for the sparkys if i can make it clear that its unsafe and not allowed for a floorlayer to do this.

Bit like i would expect yourself to say you will relay the carpet etc the best you can but the customer 'should' get a qualified flooring installer to refit properly.

 

[ericmark]

As ColJack says more to do with insurance. As far as I am aware Part P will not stop you it says

SCHEDULE 2B Regulation 12(5)
DESCRIPTIONS OF WORK WHERE NO BUILDING NOTICE OR DEPOSIT OF FULL PLANS REQUIRED
1. Work consisting of—
(a) replacing any fixed electrical equipment which does not include the provision of—
(i) any new fixed cabling; or
(ii) a consumer unit;

However when you remove and refit a cooker you should measure the ELI and check the fuse/MCB/RCBO is correct size for cable.
If the guy before you has done the job right then there is no problem. But if the guy before you made errors than as the last person to work on the system those errors would likely be considered as your fault for not correcting.
We would normally fill in a "Minor Works Certificate" and these can be down loaded
here form 5 on page 15 is what you need to fill in. Part three is the problem.

PART 3 : Essential Tests
1. Earth continuity : satisfactory
2. Insulation resistance:
Line/neutral .......................................MΩ
Line/earth ..........................................MΩ
Neutral/earth......................................MΩ
3. Earth fault loop impedance Ω
4. Polarity : satisfactory
5. RCD operation (if applicable): Rated residual operating current IΔn ..........mA and operating time of ..........ms (at IΔn)

To fill in this part you need at least a mega, and loop impedance tester if it has a RCD also a RCD tester which will set you back £750 approx.

There is nothing that says you must do the tests but likely insurance will not cover you unless you do.

 

[scarypants]

The building regulation state that you can exchange electrical accessories and equipment like for like without notification.
So if you was disconnecting any appliance then reconnecting to the same connection (that's without relocating/moving the original connection point). In theory okay.
But the grey area is special locations and kitchens, I know of non-part p plumbers that have removed showers and replaced them for the same output size and claim they are allowed to do this.
But as stated before "has the previous installer, installed correct protective device for cable size and output values"

 

[chapeau]

So am i allowed to unwire/rewire the cookers for my customers even tho i have to offical training or certificates to say im compertent?

Of course you are. You only need to be concerned with the requirements of Part P, not BS7671. For what you propose, Part P doesn't require notification. Part P no longer requires installations to be tested, you just need to do the job 'safely'.

Take pictures before and after if you need to cover your back. If you told me you were going to bring an electrician in at extra cost and possibly extra time you wouldn't get the job.

 

[IJWS15]

Surely there is a difference between what the housholder can do (DIY) and what Matty can do as Matty is CHARGING for the work as part of the flooring job.

I believe I can do certain electrical work in my home within the regulations but I cannot do the same things a friends if I am being paid because I then need qualifications.

 

[chapeau]

I think you are thinking about gas work. Special laws/regulations cover working with gas. If you are employed or self employed then you need to be 'approved', by law.

 

[IJWS15]

No - I am not thinking about gas - I am not allowed to do gas.

Are you suggesting that I can charge for electrical work WITHOUT qualifications?

 

[rebuke]

There's nothing illegal about charging for electrical work without qualifications, the only legally enforced thing is Part P, which doesn't mention qualifications, however for notifiable work, you either need to be a member of a self-certification scheme (which will require qualifications), or notify the council every time, and have them come out and inspect and test.

The issue with charging for electrical work, is insurance - if something goes wrong and a house burns down, most insurance won't cover you unless you are qualified, so by doing chargeable work you open yourself up to potentially rather expensive problems...

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Err....

Testing?....

MWC?...

If a cooker needs disconnecting and moving so that flooring can be fitted then surely it is a freestanding appliance, not a fixed one?

Since when do non-fixed appliances need MWCs?

If it was plugged in, would you think you needed to test the circuit before you plugged it back in, and open up the plug to check that the fuse was the right rating?

If not, why do you think there's some liability attached to you if you connect the appliance by putting the cable into the terminals of a cooker outlet plate?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

The building regulation state that you can exchange electrical accessories and equipment like for like without notification.

Of course you are. You only need to be concerned with the requirements of Part P, not BS7671. For what you propose, Part P doesn't require notification. Part P no longer requires installations to be tested, you just need to do the job 'safely'.

Part P (in fact all of the Building Regulations) applies to any work whatsoever on fixed electrical cables or fixed electrical equipment located on the consumer’s side of the electricity supply meter which operate at low or extra-low voltage and are—
(a) in or attached to a dwelling;
(b) in the common parts of a building serving one or more dwellings, but excluding power supplies to lifts;
(c) in a building that receives its electricity from a source located within or shared with a dwelling; or
(d) in a garden or in or on land associated with a building where the electricity is from a source located within or shared with a dwelling.

A cooker which needs to be moved so that flooring can go down is clearly not a fixed appliance.

But as stated before "has the previous installer, installed correct protective device for cable size and output values"

If Matty was fitting a worktop, and needed to unplug a microwave and a toaster and a kettle, would you advise him to worry about whether the previous installer did the socket circuit OK?

 

[scarypants]

But as stated before "has the previous installer, installed correct protective device for cable size and output values"

If Matty was fitting a worktop, and needed to unplug a microwave and a toaster and a kettle, would you advise him to worry about whether the previous installer did the socket circuit OK?[/quote]

No! I won't advise him on that as he has not terminated any conductors nor touched the installation. But if I had disconnected the cooker, when reconnecting I would assure it was safe and fit for purpose of use.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Why?

There is absolutely no difference in terms of the rest of the installation between plugging a freestanding appliance in and wiring it into an outlet plate.

 

[mattysupra]

O.k thanks chaps. In the future i will remove and install myself. It will make my life easier and customers.

I might even get some pics to put in the 'pic of the week' threads.