Am I allowed to disconect/connect a cooker in someone house?

[ColJack]

if you're really bothered by it, you could always do a 5 day wonder course.. a Domestic Installer course aimed at other trades thet need to do little bits of electrical work such as kitchen fitters and plumbers and the like..

out of interest, what flooring do you as a pro recommend for a kitchen?
I was thinking laminate but the waterproof stuff is expensive.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I'm sure Matty can advise, but until then my vote would go for bamboo.

 

[Johnmelad502]

out of interest, what flooring do you as a pro recommend for a kitchen?
I was thinking laminate but the waterproof stuff is expensive.

Tiles...

 

[scarypants]

Why?

There is absolutely no difference in terms of the rest of the installation between plugging a freestanding appliance in and wiring it into an outlet plate.

Because I care

Oh bamboo! boo-hoo! okay for bedroom, studies, front room and giant pandas

For Kitchens
If your tilling use an anti slip tiles on floors, you can use soft cushion type (kardene? make it but not cheap) or aqua laminates. Unless your really posh and real wood is nice but does expand and contract more than the laminates.

 

[securespark]

Why?

There is absolutely no difference in terms of the rest of the installation between plugging a freestanding appliance in and wiring it into an outlet plate.

That's not strictly true.

There is no element of error when connecting or disconnecting an appliance with a plug. They are designed for use by unskilled persons.

Whereas connecting stationary equipment allows for potential mistakes: RP, high resistance joints, etc..

 

[ban-all-sheds]

out of interest, what flooring do you as a pro recommend for a kitchen?
I was thinking laminate but the waterproof stuff is expensive.

Tiles...

I assumed, as he mentioned laminates, that he wanted "wood".

 

[ban-all-sheds]

There is no element of error when connecting or disconnecting an appliance with a plug. They are designed for use by unskilled persons.

Whereas connecting stationary equipment allows for potential mistakes: RP, high resistance joints, etc..

Indeed, and I'm not talking about ensuring that you do the job properly.

I'm talking about the notion that if you connect a cooker to a cooker outlet plate you have to test & certify the existing circuit back to the CU:

However when you remove and refit a cooker you should measure the ELI and check the fuse/MCB/RCBO is correct size for cable.
.
.
We would normally fill in a "Minor Works Certificate"
.
.
Essential Tests
1. Earth continuity : satisfactory
2. Insulation resistance:
Line/neutral .......................................MΩ
Line/earth ..........................................MΩ
Neutral/earth......................................MΩ
3. Earth fault loop impedance Ω
4. Polarity : satisfactory
5. RCD operation (if applicable): Rated residual operating current IΔn ..........mA and operating time of ..........ms (at IΔn)

To fill in this part you need at least a mega, and loop impedance tester if it has a RCD also a RCD tester which will set you back £750 approx.

There is nothing that says you must do the tests but likely insurance will not cover you unless you do.

I'm talking about the notion that if you connect a cooker to cooker outlet plate that you have to worry about what's between the outlet place and the CU but when you just plug it in you're quite happy not to worry about what's between the socket and the CU:

"has the previous installer, installed correct protective device for cable size and output values"

Scary - if you think you need to do that with a cooker plate, why do you think you don't need to do it with a socket? Please be logical and consistent in your explanation.

Why do you think that you don't need to open up the plug to check that the right fuse is in there? Please be logical and consistent in your explanation.


It's all nonsense - as I said, there is absolutely no difference in terms of the rest of the installation between plugging a freestanding appliance in and wiring it into an outlet plate.

 

[scarypants]

Good Morning b-a-s.

I don't think i'm being inconsistent, surely you can accept there is a fundamental difference between an appliance with a plug on it and an appliance that is terminated to an outlet-plate.

When something is disconnected in this way, do we not have a duty of care to assure the appliance is fit and safe prior, reconnection and energizing?
Who knows if the appliance has ever been used and if it has, what for and over what period time?
If it's been installed incorrectly and I reconnect it back up to an out-plate without checking it over, then something happens do to a fault with the installation, how do you think I'd feel. There's a responsibility to be taken, surely?

Plug tops total different issue, but I'm not against the suggestion of checking them everytime we use one.

 

[ColJack]

I assumed, as he mentioned laminates, that he wanted "wood".

I might have wanted those tile effect laminates you can get...

but I didn't.. I want beach laminate..

can't I just use the cheap stuf and seal it with varnish or something to seal the joints and waterproof it?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Good Morning b-a-s.

I don't think i'm being inconsistent, surely you can accept there is a fundamental difference between an appliance with a plug on it and an appliance that is terminated to an outlet-plate.

There is no difference in the requirements for the circuit between the CU and the outlet plate.

When something is disconnected in this way, do we not have a duty of care to assure the appliance is fit and safe prior, reconnection and energizing?

Why should you have any more duty of care concerning the existing fixed installation than if it plugged in?

When you plug something in do you think you have a duty of care to check that the socket has the right polarity, that there is proper continuity of the conductors, that the fault loop value is withing limits, that the socket isn't a spur from a spur, that the CU fuse/MCB is the right rating etc?

If not, then what is your logical and consistent reason why not?

Who knows if the appliance has ever been used and if it has, what for and over what period time?

Same applies if it has a plug on the end of its cable.

If it's been installed incorrectly and I reconnect it back up to an out-plate without checking it over, then something happens do to a fault with the installation, how do you think I'd feel. There's a responsibility to be taken, surely?

What if you plug it in and something happens due to a fault in the existing fixed installation which you never touched?

Plug tops total different issue, but I'm not against the suggestion of checking them everytime we use one.

Do you though?

Do you feel that you have a duty of care to check the fuse rating and polarity and cpc connection in customer's plugs before you can plug something back in?

If not, then what is your logical and consistent reason why not?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

can't I just use the cheap stuf and seal it with varnish or something to seal the joints and waterproof it?

Of course you can.

And you'll get to be really good and quick at laying the stuff as you keep rplacing it every year.

 

[scarypants]

can't I just use the cheap stuf and seal it with varnish or something to seal the joints and waterproof it?

If you check on the boxes or in-store display, it will tell you if suitable for Kitchens. I normally go with the ones that are suitable for bathrooms for kitchens. Does cost a little more but my missus likes spilling things.
Normally wine but my tea has been thrown about a time or two

 

[ColJack]

it's like £10 for a pack of ordinary stuff, and £30 for a pack of "spashproof" stuff.. even then it doesn't say waterproof, so a flooded washing machine will still knacker it..

would you recomend cutting it round the units or lay floor then install units?
harder to change / remove if units on top obviously but what about movement if it doesn't go wall to wall?

 

[scarypants]

b-a-s,
We see things different,
Of course I don't check polarity and fuse ratings of plug tops and the health of the circuit prior to putting the kettles or toasters on.
I will make an on the spot assessment though and if it looks unsafe, I'd then reconsider whether I want toast with my tea or visa versa!

It seems you trying to validate your views by trivial comments.
If I'd been in a house and needed to uncouple a gas hob to make access to an electrical point or termination. I would not then after completion of my work tighten the coupler back up and assume it was safe, would you?

Oh yes I would turn the gas fire on and off, if it had not been disconnected to keep warm and may toast some bread on it as the toaster not safe to use

 

[scarypants]

it's like £10 for a pack of ordinary stuff, and £30 for a pack of "spashproof" stuff.. even then it doesn't say waterproof, so a flooded washing machine will still knacker it..

would you recomend cutting it round the units or lay floor then install units?
harder to change / remove if units on top obviously but what about movement if it doesn't go wall to wall?

What i'd do is install kitchen and leave the kicker board plinth that runs under cabinets off and when you install the floor just tuck them underneath the cabinets up to supporting legs then place kicker back on above. So no unsightly cuts, nice tidy job.
That would also save money on materials as you would not be laying down flooring that is hidden under cabinets.
If it's a total revamp, I remove the skirting board and lay floor and sit new skirting above again covers any gaps. (you should leave expansion gaps at wall, so this works well. If not possible to do that way a bit of edge bead around bottom of skirts.