Another window condensation question

[andymartin86]

Hi Everyone
I have a 1970s house which had new double glazing fitted I assume around 2007 however I can’t be sure as there is no evidence.
Every window in the house in the colder months suffers from condensation even when the room is adequately heated. It then generates black mould if not wiped away (which I do) but find it comes through the beading gaps regardless.
I always put this down to the house and it being airtight with no ventilation however last year I had a composite door fitted on the front to replace the old UPVC one (which also suffered terribly with condensation). This door made a massive difference to the hallway and in the year its been fitted has never had condensation or mould on any of the plastic.
Is it just a case of the windows aren’t good enough and require replacing for newer technology?

Photos attached showing landing window (wet), hallway door window (dry and in the same room) and the front room which is currently unheated as we don’t use that room (dry ish)

I would just like some guidance before splashing out on new windows all round. I would hate to do it and be in the same situation but something tells me I won’t.

 

[aveatry]

AS they are quite old now it could be that the glass units need replacing although they do not look like they are blown.
I had some windows doing the same thing but they were also clearly blown with condensation inbetween the panes so I replaced them. The old ones had the silver spacer like your last picture but the new ones had thermal spacers which are black or white. The old silver ones allow cold bridging from the outer pane to the inner. When I replaced them I also had argon filled and coated glass and after that there was no more condensation on the glass in the cold mornings.

 

[ronniecabers]

Firstly - Condensation won't magically disappear with new windows . Condensation is water vapour collecting on the coldest surface..in this case it just happens to be your windows. So by getting new thermally efficient windows , yes your windows will not condensate as they are keeping warm BUT the water vapour will collect on the next coldest spot.
Right, back to your windows ... if fitted in 2007 they should already have Low e glass on them and possibly argon gas ( if it hasn't all leaked out...). Modern windows have warm edge spacer bar to stop the heat transference between the panes of glass and the frames have extra chambers to aid keeping the heat in the house ...so yes new frames would reduce Condensation on the windows ...

You also need to address the levels of Water vapour in the house... purge ventilation ( opening a window, extractor fans and ventilation systems Piv/mhev ) are the quickest ways to deal with , trickle vents might help but personally I'm not convinced about those , even though they are supposed to be fitted these days ( or airbricks , PIV/MHEV ). Regarding water vapour ... things that create it ... showers, boiling water, drying clothes indoors, even breathing .. these are just a few but gives you an idea.
So in summary of a longwinded post... yes new windows will reduce Condensation on the new glass and frames BUT it will condensate on the next coldest point unless you address/reduce the amount of water vapour in the air

 

[aveatry]

Firstly - Condensation won't magically disappear with new windows . Condensation is water vapour collecting on the coldest surface..in this case it just happens to be your windows. So by getting new thermally efficient windows , yes your windows will not condensate as they are keeping warm BUT the water vapour will collect on the next coldest spot.
Right, back to your windows ... if fitted in 2007 they should already have Low e glass on them and possibly argon gas ( if it hasn't all leaked out...). Modern windows have warm edge spacer bar to stop the heat transference between the panes of glass and the frames have extra chambers to aid keeping the heat in the house ...so yes new frames would reduce Condensation on the windows ...

You also need to address the levels of Water vapour in the house... purge ventilation ( opening a window, extractor fans and ventilation systems Piv/mhev ) are the quickest ways to deal with , trickle vents might help but personally I'm not convinced about those , even though they are supposed to be fitted these days ( or airbricks , PIV/MHEV ). Regarding water vapour ... things that create it ... showers, boiling water, drying clothes indoors, even breathing .. these are just a few but gives you an idea.
So in summary of a longwinded post... yes new windows will reduce Condensation on the new glass and frames BUT it will condensate on the next coldest point unless you address/reduce the amount of water vapour in the air

There is that too but the OP doesnt seem to have a big condensation issue and I would say its breathing that is doing most of it on units that have lost their gas but they may not of had the low E coating back in 2007 it may of been available but as an extra cost to the home owner and one window at least does not have the warm edge bar.

 

[ronniecabers]

Low e coating was a building regulation requirement in 2007 ( in fact came in in April 2002 ) , so it should have Low e . Warm edge spacer wasn't widely used until 2010 when the building regulations were again changed and Window Energy Ratings introduced .. most companies opted to use warm edge spacer from thsi point as standard.
Admittedly from OPs pics the Condensation on the glass isn't huge ( around edges) which means the glass isn't too bad but OP mentions his frames going black from mould .... this is a classic sign of excess water vapour needing to be ventilated

 

[crank39]

Warmer air can hold more moisture than cooler air. Dew point is the temperature at which the moisture in the air visibly forms into liquid or ice. If the surface temperature of an object falls below the dew point, water will form or “condense” on the surface of the object.

So your new door glass and side panel too I assume is that energy efficient that the inner pane isn't being cooled by the outer pane because of the warm edge spacer and because of this the surface remains above the dew point, keeping surfaces above this this means condensation cannot form. But as it stands you need to do the following

1. Ensure there is adequate and continuous ventilation. ...
2. Invest in a dehumidifier. ...
3. Consider a PIV unit. ...
4. Do not dry your clothes inside. ...
5. Keep the heating on a constant, low setting. ...
6. Improve your property's insulation. ...
7. Do not keep too many house plants...