Answer to Webstarblue - and the moderator?

[ChrisR]

I don't see why we shouldn't answer this one. If the moderator is concerned that opinions expressed here might be cited in a legal conflict and get the site in trouble, we might as well give up.

It's the plumbers responsibility to check that the incoming main will provide sufficient flow of water to whatever appliances he's installing. There are other ways round it than fitting an accumulator, such as a large storage tank and pump.

I have just refused to fit an unvented cylinder where the mains pressure is 2 bar and the supply pipe is 15mm. The total cold mains flows in the house add up to about 18 litres per minute. That's marginal for just one shower. What clinched it was that they currently use a 3.5 bar shower pump, so would have been disappointed.

You can't get more out of a cylinder than you put in - an accumulator doesn't break that rule but it does maintain a better-than-mains flow for a limited period/volume.

 

[bripl]

we live in a democratic society with free speech or so i am led to believe,but not on this forum it would appear,maybe the moderator would care to enlighten us?i agree with chris and his post or do i have to seek legal advice?

 

[webstarblue]

Thanks for the response Chris. Perhaps I should have asked for opinions and not advice??

When the water company came out they measured a flow of 14litres/min and they only have to supply 9 and the pressure was 2.6 which only has to be 1.5

When the oso rep and the plumber met at my house last week they discussed a tank and pump but both agreed that it would be too noisy.

The plumber did take readings before he started the job and felt that everything would be ok.

Would the plumber be able to claim on any of his insurances, which I am sure he will have? He is a great bloke, but I am feeling more and more that I have been mis-sold.
Also I have just read, so this is an edit, that he should have CITB training and G3 certification to fit an unvented system, is that true?

 

[ChrisR]

"Also I have just read, so this is an edit, that he should have CITB training and G3 certification to fit an unvented system, is that true?"

MOre or less. He has to be a Competent Person. Only way of showing that is to have passed a short course and got registered. Also ho would have to have informed the local building control office before commencing work. Fines for not doing so are quite stiff, though few actually do it.

My gravity fed bath tap produces 20 litres a minute from the cistern one floor up. 14 litres/min isn't enough, by a long way, for more than one tap. If your OSO has an air gap in it, which it probably has, you'll have a bit of the "accumulator" effect though maybe only for 20-30 litres. It should give you an idea what a bigger one would do.

If you have a separate pressure vessel, you don't get the accumulator effect at all; it's there to take up expansion, not to keep pressure high. Its starting pressure could be 3 bar, whereas an air gap starts at 0 bar. Takes a little thinking about!

 

[webstarblue]

I have only just realised the moderator has locked my original thread. couldnt work out why Chris started this one, now I know.

Moderator said "get legal advice" what does that mean? solicitor? plumbing association, trading standards.

At the moment I feel I need advice/opinions from experienced people that use this site, before I go for legal advice. Who knows my problem may be able to be sorted out amicably.

 

[webstarblue]

Just an update. Since posting this message I have not been able to contact the plumber, although I do have his home address. Does his Corgi registration cover his misselling of my system?

 

[ChrisR]

NO! Gas safety only.

 

[webstarblue]

Thanks Chris, How do you think I should go about sorting this problem out? You seem level headed!

 

[ChrisR]

If you want to pursue a claim against the plumber, you have to be able to show that the "system isn't working", as you put it. I don't know the plumbing situation but that may be a matter of judgement - perhaps the plumber could get a colleague as an expert witness on his side to say it was reasonable. Then you have an expensive battle on your hands.

The plumber is unlikely to have indemnity insurance. (As opposed to 3rd party liablility ins, which wouldn't help)

What WOULD you have had done if you had known? One suggestion might be that the plumber takes all his stuff out and reinstates what was there before. But that probably isn't good for you either. Possibly you would win the court case or the plumber may give in if you try -who knows? Perhaps it would be best to take his offer of a free accumulator installation - though check the unit price for yourself.

 

[oilman]

"Also I have just read, so this is an edit, that he should have CITB training and G3 certification to fit an unvented system, is that true?"

MOre or less. He has to be a Competent Person. Only way of showing that is to have passed a short course and got registered. Also ho would have to have informed the local building control office before commencing work. Fines for not doing so are quite stiff, though few actually do it.

My understanding is a G3 certificate is mandatory for fitting unvented cylinders greater than 15 litres. (Technically this includes oil combies which are around 70 litres, but everyone pretends differently or it would screw the oil boiler market).

I thought it was the property owners responsibility to inform BC prior to the installation, though the installer should see evidence of this before starting work, (or could take on the task of informing BC).