Anti-vaxxers don't want you to read this. **Links are required for all claims**

[JP_]

The best trials are double blind, where the subjects and the people running the trials don't know which of the options the patient has given.

In this case the volunteers, and their parents, will have been told the range of options and they will have been told that they won't know what they were given until after the trial is complete. That's when they have their say. They'll be able to drop out at any time and be 'unblinded' but everyone tried to avoid that so they don't get removed from the data.

You've got no reason to say the parents don't get a say, that's a guess on your part and very unlikely to pass an ethics board. But

He's an anti-vaxxer, covid denier, and all round liar. I really don't know why we bother answering him, he ignores all evidence, facts and logic and just goes with some loony ideas he picked up on YouTube or Rumble.

 

[JP_]

So they're now experimenting on kids, and parents it appears have no say...

Look, parents having no say, today! Oh, no, old news, this has been going on since March, with parental consent.

"Parents are clamouring to enrol their kids in the first COVID-19 vaccine trials in young children. “Somebody told me they called and called and called until they were allowed to participate,” says Kawsar Talaat, an infectious-disease physician and vaccine scientist at the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health in Baltimore, Maryland. She is part of a trial that began testing the Pfizer–BioNTech vaccine in children under 12 in late March."

 

[ellal]

You've got no reason to say the parents don't get a say, that's a guess on your part and very unlikely to pass an ethics board.

Time will tell...

"Some children as young as 12 should be allowed to overrule their parents on whether they have the COVID vaccine, a senior doctor has said."

"Dr David Strain, a clinical lead for COVID services, told Sky News he believed there were 12-year-olds "mature enough" to decide to have the coronavirus jab without the consent of their legal guardians."

Which ties in with children being able to choose to take contraception without parental consent...

And now a latest ruling today...

"Under-16s can take puberty blockers without parental consent, the Court of Appeal has ruled."

"The decision reverses a 2020 ruling that under-16s lacked capacity to give informed consent to the treatment, which delays the onset of puberty."

So what was that about "very unlikely to pass an ethics board"?

 

[IT Minion]

Time will tell...

Some children as young as 12 should be allowed to overrule their parents on whether they have the COVID vaccine, a senior doctor has said.

"Dr David Strain, a clinical lead for COVID services, told Sky News he believed there were 12-year-olds "mature enough" to decide to have the coronavirus jab without the consent of their legal guardians."

Which ties in with children being able to choose to take contraception without parental consent...

And now a latest ruling today...

"Under-16s can take puberty blockers without parental consent, the Court of Appeal has ruled."

"The decision reverses a 2020 ruling that under-16s lacked capacity to give informed consent to the treatment, which delays the onset of puberty."

So what was that about "very unlikely to pass an ethics board"?

Clinical trials are utterly different to giving a treatment that has been tested and approved.

 

[sxturbo]

Unvaccinated care worker, 55, and daughter, 32, die of Covid within 2 weeks as dad says jab refusal will ‘haunt him’

Of course, anti-vaxxers will say "did they die with covid or of covid" and then mention that the 4.55 million deaths are being "overplayed" and that it only kills people that were going to die anyway...

These people would still be alive if only they didn't believe the fake news spread on social media about vaccines being dangerous, untested and generally lethal.

Is there any proof they would definitely have been alive still?

I'm not an anti vaxxer (I'm fully jabbed up) but being open minded.

I think their chances of surviving would have been much greater but there is no guarantee that it would definitely have saved them.

 

[johnny2007]

Any examples of double jabbed mother daughter deaths from Covid? After all most people are now vaccinated so it just be easier to find them. Or examples of healthy people in their 30s with both jabs dying from Covid, again, it should be easy to find them if you're right.

Also, my link was to the guardian, not the Sun.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...nd/deathsoccurringbetween2januaryand2july2021

• In England, between 2 January and 2 July 2021, there were 51,281 deaths involving coronavirus (COVID-19); 640 occurred in people who were fully vaccinated, which includes people who had been infected before they were vaccinated.

[FONT=Open Sans, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]Are you going to dispute figures from the ons?[/FONT]

 

[Trazor]

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...nd/deathsoccurringbetween2januaryand2july2021

• 
  
  
  • In England, between 2 January and 2 July 2021, there were 51,281 deaths involving coronavirus (COVID-19); 640 occurred in people who were fully vaccinated, which includes people who had been infected before they were vaccinated.

Are you going to dispute figures from the ons?[/FONT]

How about posting this realistic view from your link.

Note, only 0.8% deaths 21 days after 2 doses

 

[IT Minion]

Is there any proof they would definitely have been alive still?

I'm not an anti vaxxer (I'm fully jabbed up) but being open minded.

I think their chances of surviving would have been much greater but there is no guarantee that it would definitely have saved them.

No certainty, but it's a safe bet.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...nd/deathsoccurringbetween2januaryand2july2021

• 
  
  
  • In England, between 2 January and 2 July 2021, there were 51,281 deaths involving coronavirus (COVID-19); 640 occurred in people who were fully vaccinated, which includes people who had been infected before they were vaccinated.

[FONT=Open Sans, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]Are you going to dispute figures from the ons?[/FONT]

Never, the ONS are world class statisticians. I will dispute your ability to read.

As trazor points out, 458 to 38,964. If you include people who caught Covid before they were vaccinated (to get your 640) then it's still 60:1. That's pretty ****ty odds, even before you take into account that the people unvaccinated were mostly healthier.

So I understand if you can't find any in such a small group.

 

[Notch7]

And I'll repeat this again...

Dying with the 'virus' or dying because of the virus?

Because figures are mainly compiled using the former..

WRONG

I have posted this so many times.


seriously what is wrong with you.

• Deaths involving COVID-19 (underlying or secondary cause): 136,679
  
  
• Deaths due to COVID-19 (underlying cause): 122,508
  
  https://www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/transparencyandgovernance/freedomofinformationfoi/deathsduetocovid19
  
  

 

[Notch7]

5000 additional heart condition deaths in the first lock down. Increased death from alcohol suicides etc. people unable to physically see doctors for over a year will have contributed to some of the spike

You make the assumption things would have been different with no lockdown.

by the way, suicide rate hasn’t gone up.

 

[johnny2007]

No certainty, but it's a safe bet.

Never, the ONS are world class statisticians. I will dispute your ability to read.

As trazor points out, 458 to 38,964. If you include people who caught Covid before they were vaccinated (to get your 640) then it's still 60:1. That's pretty ****ty odds, even before you take into account that the people unvaccinated were mostly healthier.

So I understand if you can't find any in such a small group.

You asked for evidence of double jabbed dying from covid and I provided it from a reputable source.
So as you can see, double jabbed people die of covid.










==================================================
Reminder to all:
**Links are required for all claims**.

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[IT Minion]

You asked for evidence of double jabbed dying from covid and I provided it from a reputable source.
So as you can see, double jabbed people die of covid.

No, I asked...

Any examples of double jabbed mother daughter deaths from Covid?

I asked it because if it occurred it'd be front page news. So it'd be easy for you to find it I would also accept father/son or any parent/child tragedy where they were both vaccinated. Sadly theres plenty of examples of unvaccinated cases especially when you include India.

We know that vaccinations save lives, your own link shows how many more died without vaccines. I expect it's too much to ask you to agree though.

Finally, I also said:

I will dispute your ability to read.

I was right. Again.

 

[John the plumber]

Sorry to hear that, but I didn't ask for it. Unlike other people on here might do!

It seems that the sun newspaper is now the go to place for factual links.
Who would have thought it











------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
All:

Some false claims have been deleted.
Be careful not to or you'll be barred from the thread.
Give links, dates etc if you make a claim.

No more of "sheeple" or "rabid" or other silly insults.
**Links are required for all claims** from here on.
Mod

 

[John the plumber]

Sorry to hear that, but I didn't ask for it. Unlike other people on here might do!


It seems the sun newspaper is considered a factual source now.
Who would have thought it.
I’d love to see how many lawsuits ,apologies etc the sun newspaper has had to make as there is no way the sun newspaper would ever get a story wrong.
Who would have thought it.












------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
All:

Some false claims have been deleted.
Be careful not to or you'll be barred from the thread.
Give links, dates etc if you make a claim.

No more of "sheeple" or "rabid" or other silly insults.
**Links are required for all claims** from here on.
Mod

 

[noseall]

==================================================
Reminder to all:
**Links are required for all claims**.

or you get a suspension/ban.

That's jonny and ellal stuffed then.