Any hotel managers or engineers on here? AC question.

[RigidRaider]

I travel a lot around Africa on business and I'm coming to understand that running chillers for central air conditioning is a very major overhead for hotels, so it is only the top hotels in very hot countries that can afford to run proper air conditioning. Others will switch off the chillers to save money or don't have them at all so the fan will just blow unheated air out of the vents to give an illusion of cooling. In the end I guess it comes down to a balance between the cost of running the chillers and the cost of business lost thanks to complaints and bad reports on Tripadvisor etc. This is not confined to hot countries - I slept for only two torrid hours in a hotel in Manchester last week before giving up and opening the window (at least it could be opened - many can't) and lying cool but fully awake listening to street noise. Now I'm trying to find a mid-priced hotel in Budapest (Pest riverside) with proper AC as it will be hot in May/June when I plan to go.

So what proportion of an hotel's overheads can be expected to be spent on running the AC?

I guess split ACs are cheaper because once bought and installed they can be switched off when the room is out of use. But in terms of cooling the entire building and its contents they must be less efficient than central AC running full time, surely?

 

[Whitespirit66]

Can't help with your main questions, but having travelled a bit in central Europe, know that their summers can be stifling. Best place to ask for a suitable hotel would be the Tripadvisor Buda forum.

http://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/ShowForum-g274887-i263-Budapest_Central_Hungary.html

Your trials with AC in Manchester sound familiar. Few years ago, we stayed in one of the Kruger Park's rondavels in Southa Africa. It was an extremely hot night so put the AC on. The AC units were the individual units that are mounted in a hole through the wall. These particular units were quite old and noisy. Despite plenty of 'anaesthetic', the unit's clanking and whirring noises kept us awake. Trouble was, as soon as you turned it off. the temp in the room started quickly rising. One very sleepless night.

 

[bernardgreen]

Some hotels used heat recovered from their air conditioning systems to heat water for the hotel.

 

[EddieM]

I feel a lot of these hot countries seem to ignore the fact that insulating the building effectively is just as important as it is in a temperate / cool country. Effective insulation would dramatically reduce AC costs ... but have you ever seen any used... no... therefore the reverse situation occurs.. overheating / over AC compensation. bit of education required I feel.

 

[RigidRaider]

Thanks, I post reviews on Tripadvisor but didn't realise they had a Budapest forum!

...and yes, buildings in hot countries are woefully badly insulated. Nobody really gives a damn; that's the problem.

 

[r.bartlett]

We are currently in the process of refitting a 140 bedroom ac system (VRF) The cost is around 600k. or 4k per room

So far we have done 70 rooms . we anticipate the project to complete early next year. When they had 45 rooms completed a check on the leccy bill showed the energy saving over 3 months was roughly 7k. Most of this was due to old inefficient systems being replaced with SOTA units with better control and BMS integration (new units turn off automatically at 11.00 am now for example)

I had no chance of convincing them the running cost was expected to be about 50% of the old kit but now they have seen the bill they were 'shocked' (in their own words)

They only went for replacement due to the dire unreliability of the old kit and r22 issue which will come in to force at the end of this year.


AC for hotels is a very costly business. Very few ac is 24/7 but hotels are close cool in summer/heat in winter. Only data centres and alike work more as they are true 24/7 but tend to have +N which sheds the load.

There are ways to heat recover (to the hot water) but are costly to implement and only work when it's warm out side. Heat pump hot water is not a very cost effective way. Gas is still cheaper overall. The 'free heat' is a nonsense IAH.

The problem with Africa and alike (the USA southern Europe is just as bad) is that they are used to poor quality engineering and make do and mend. They think a 25 yr old is a young'un and should be kept running whatever. You cannot convince them that a new unit will payback in 3-5 years and actually save them money from then on.

 

[RigidRaider]

Interesting insight, thanks.

What is R22?

The problem with hotels is that few owners understand that you can't just build it, open it then run it without any maintenance. Systems need constant upgrading and refurbishment and rooms and public areas wear out and need re-styling as well if the hotel is to remain attractive and competitive. Almost since it opened in the mid 80s I've been a regular guest at the Sheraton in Lagos and during that time I've seen the owning Ibru family run the place down to rock bottom while they diverted all the funds to their other hotel, the Federal Palace in Ikoyi, the main business district. South African hotels have now arrived in the neighbourhood, forcing the owners to spend money upgrading the old place well after they had lost most of their regular business to newer smarter competitors. As always in Africa, short-termism rules.

 

[Norcon]

Yes its just like heating in a cold climate.
Badly insulated and its throwing money down the drain.

Spent 8 years as a ccc installing vrv 3 pipe systems in office blocks, hotels, banks, supermarkets etc.
Mostly Daikin and then later Toshiba. Nice work but got fed up with the travelling.
R22 is an old refrigerant that is being phased out.
The reasoning behind the changes in the R22 refrigeration legislation is simple- studies have shown it has a detrimental effect on the ozone layer resulting in excessive UV levels.