Anyone got any evidence for a god?

[Mikefromlondon]

You have to put yourself into a hypnotic state in order to allow yourself to believe that God is talking to you. Prayers dont work. That has been tested time and again by enormous groups of people praying for a sick child who then dies. Instead of facing the reality, believers instead come out with some nonsense about God deciding her time is up. Can you not see yourselves?

I must say that I am not very expert on the subject of prayers, I still don't know what is the best way to offer any prayers, I will give you two recent examples where my prayer offered in true honesty and devotion, worked so well that a dying cat that my Vet could offer no further treatment and told me it was best for me to put her to sleep, I brought her back, and held her against my heart, and looked deep into her sad, glazed eyes, with fixed staring daze, I looked deep into them, and could virtually feel her pain, and, with tears in my eyes, I asked that Lord, God and his son Jesus to please help this poor animal who does not deserve to die so young, I asked Jesus to heal my cat, to forgive her and me for anything wrong I may have done, and something told me (not literally) but I did not give up on my faith in medicine either, so I went back to my vet and insisted that they check her Thyroxine levels, but they kept saying there is no need to check her thyroxine as most cats her age do not suffer from a thyroxine problem.

However, all her symptoms were indicating that thyroxine gland could be responsible when cats starts to lose weight rapidly, along with possibly many other causes.

My Vet still refused to check her thyroxine, kept ruling it out, then a different locum Vet looked at her medical history, and test results, suggested that we give her some Steroid tablets, and this may start her failing kidneys again, and that was magic! the very next day the cat started to eat by herself, instead of force feeding her, and she was on to a path of recovery. That cat is now healthy, little playful thing, jumping up and down, running mad all over! Gained from 2.2kg to now well over 3.6Kg,

In my 2nd example, my ex work colleague, who became a very good friend of mine, I had known him for 35 years, contracted cancer of the lungs, he never smoked or drank, but suffered from Asthma and hayfever regularly, both his parents died of cancer.

when he was diagnosed with cancer about this time last year, I was devastated for him, but i can put my hands on my heart and say that I did not offer any prayers for him as he was an Atheist and did not believe in a God, as we would often discuss this subject, though i reassured him that he should not worry, that medical science has taken giant leaps and there are many treatments for cancer, he should be fine, just look forward to getting the best treatment to beat his cancer and he will be fine, he should not stress himself, and that he should have faith in the modern medicine. he agreed, and had faith in modern medicine, he did not appear to be highly distressed, of course he was sad that he had contracted cancer, who wouldn't be in that situation.

I was hopeful too, that his cancer treatment should see him live for at least another 5 years or more may be, little did I know that a few months later he would be dead! I could not offer any prayers for the poor chap!

If only I knew he was so gravely ill, I would have offered prayers from the bottom of my heart, which i did not.



In another example, I did not pray and left it to medical experts only:-
My mother lived for another 10 years after her kidneys failed, she was put on a home dialysis, she died at 80 through infection of peritonitis, that i saw coming, I reported the change in the colour of her dialysis fluids when she exchanged her dialysis fluid, but the hospital told me not to bring her to the hospital as they were extremely busy, and the nurse categorically told me that if I did fetch her over they would not see to her,

yet a patient booklet given to us said that it did not matter what time of the day or night it was, if my mother felt any abdominal pains or the colour of her dialysis liquid changes, i must phone them on a special 24hr dialysis ward number given to us.

Needless to say my mother died within a week because she had contracted infection that could have been cured by giving her timely medicine, in other words NHS Trust are murderers. They killed my mother who could have gone to live another 10 years, even prayers would not have saved her if she did not receive correct medical treatment on time.

 

[cajar]

Steroid treatment saved your cat, not prayers.

With your workmate, if you really think your prayers make a difference to people in that situation, why dont you pick someone at death's door in a hospice and see if you can get them another 5 years with your prayers.

At the end of the day you know in the back of your head it's all bulldust, but it comforts you to believe it so you will find a way to make yourself believe it.

 

[cajar]

If let's say Jesus did indeed exsist would it safe to assume he may of been simply some kind of cult leader who had a load a people under his spell and whose favourite lunch happened to be bread and wine or maybe he could of been the equivalent of one of those American preacher's who pretend to get people to stand up and walk again but now given the passage of time his story has snowballed into what it is today?

In years to come will Bin Laden be likened to J.C.?

I carn't recall jesus wanting to start a "jihad" so I reckon bin laden may of fooked up his chance's!!

Well he was a man (not son of God), who formed a cult, and started an uprising against the Romans who were the secular authority at the time. Why do you think they crucified him? to quash the uprising and discourage anyone else from taking his place. Over the years his story has ended up merged with the 'holy books' of ancient persia and his story is changed to spreading a message of love, here we are in 2013 with people still believing there is a God in the sky and his son's name is Jesus.

Bin Laden will probably be the nephew of God in the bible in the year 5000 and his story will be all about the americans arguing against his message of love and then shooting him only for him to rise and ascend to heaven three days later.

 

[Mikefromlondon]

Steroid treatment saved your cat, not prayers.

With your workmate, if you really think your prayers make a difference to people in that situation, why dont you pick someone at death's door in a hospice and see if you can get them another 5 years with your prayers.

At the end of the day you know in the back of your head it's all bulldust, but it comforts you to believe it so you will find a way to make yourself believe it.

Indeed Steroids saved her, what gave me the strength to go back to my Vet and insist that the cat still has a life in her and that we should not give up, I insisted, I had 9 other cats, what difference would losing one cat made to me? but i loved them all, everyone of them is as important as any, so losing one is like losing all 10, but my prayers gave me the encouragement to go back to my vet and insist they take another look at her treatment.

 

[cajar]

Yes, they encouraged you. An idea in your own head, albeit an idea of prayers and divine beings, encouraged you to persist at the vets and the vet's training and knowledge of medical advancements saved your cat's life. No God involved, except in your own mind.

If you had not been religious and simply persisted at the vets, your cat would still have been saved in the same way. So taking God out the equation, the out come is the same.

If you had never went to the vet and instead lit candles round your cat and prayed night and day, you would have had 9 cats now. So tell me, what is the truth and what is not.

 

[JBR]

take cars for instant, why bother washing them especially the tyres when they are going to drive on dirty roads, pick up all kinds of splashes and other rubbish

Here's something with which we both agree.

I do make an exception and occasionally clean my windows, though.

 

[JBR]

In another example, I did not pray and left it to medical experts only:-
My mother lived for another 10 years after her kidneys failed, she was put on a home dialysis, she died at 80 through infection of peritonitis, that i saw coming, I reported the change in the colour of her dialysis fluids when she exchanged her dialysis fluid, but the hospital told me not to bring her to the hospital as they were extremely busy, and the nurse categorically told me that if I did fetch her over they would not see to her,

yet a patient booklet given to us said that it did not matter what time of the day or night it was, if my mother felt any abdominal pains or the colour of her dialysis liquid changes, i must phone them on a special 24hr dialysis ward number given to us.

Needless to say my mother died within a week because she had contracted infection that could have been cured by giving her timely medicine, in other words NHS Trust are murderers. They killed my mother who could have gone to live another 10 years, even prayers would not have saved her if she did not receive correct medical treatment on time.

I would have taken her anyway and I wouldn't have left until they had fulfilled their obligations. OK, they're busy. So I'd wait until they were less busy, or until all the drunks had gone home.

I hope you complained to the appropriate authorities. I certainly would have done.

 

[jeds]

Steroid treatment saved your cat, not prayers.

With your workmate, if you really think your prayers make a difference to people in that situation, why dont you pick someone at death's door in a hospice and see if you can get them another 5 years with your prayers.

At the end of the day you know in the back of your head it's all bulldust, but it comforts you to believe it so you will find a way to make yourself believe it.

Indeed Steroids saved her, what gave me the strength to go back to my Vet and insist that the cat still has a life in her and that we should not give up, I insisted, I had 9 other cats, what difference would losing one cat made to me? but i loved them all, everyone of them is as important as any, so losing one is like losing all 10, but my prayers gave me the encouragement to go back to my vet and insist they take another look at her treatment.

Mike you get yourself tied in so many knots over this. The problem starts because you refuse to acknowledge more than one god, which makes no sense. If you are of the mind to believe these things at all then overwhelmingly the evidence tells you there are many gods. Deny one of the gods and you deny them all. But believing in more than one god presents even more problems doesn’t it. If there are many gods they can’t all be the almighty. One of them must have come first and created the others. But which one came first? And where did that god come from? It’s a vicious circle of scenarios that don’t make sense and can’t be explained.

So to avoid all that you invent a dream World of cats and dark energy. Your evidence is the existence of the universe. It exists and therefore it must have been created. But you can’t avoid the difficult questions just like that. Let’s assume for a moment that some gods did create the energy and the universe. We won’t argue over which one came first. How do we know those gods are good? Maybe they are actually bad and the universe is an evil experiment to watch us torture and kill each other. Maybe there are many universes – the gods might all have a universe each and are seeing which one destroys itself first. How do we know those gods still exist? Maybe they did but expired at the point of the creation. If they do exist how do we know they hear our prayers? If they can hear our prayers how do we know they can interpret them? Maybe our praying and worshipping confuses them. Maybe it annoys them. How do we even know that praying and worshipping is what we are supposed to do?

To keep it simple, you have agreed that we know nothing about these things. You agree it’s all beyond our feeble comprehension. So why do you worship a god that you don’t know exists, don’t know if it even hears your prayers or even if praying is the correct thing to do. And if it does exist might be an evil entity just wishing you would hurry up and destroy yourself.

 

[Norcon]

The atheists and heretics are excelling themselves once again in the art of pouring scorn upon God. Evil reins on here..

 

[joe-90]

There can only ever be one god or it wouldn't be God. You can't have plurality in godship. If you think that you can - then you don't understand the argument.

 

[jeds]

The atheists and heretics are excelling themselves once again in the art of pouring scorn upon God. Evil reins on here..

They are just questions to help understanding. How do you know that praying and worshipping is heard or understood or is the correct thing to do? Where does the compulsion to pray come from. Is it the bible?

 

[Mikefromlondon]

With your workmate, if you really think your prayers make a difference to people in that situation, why dont you pick someone at death's door in a hospice and see if you can get them another 5 years with your prayers.

My reply:
I may try this one day on someone, shame I missed offering true prayers for my friend, as i was not expecting he would die so young, and really thought chemotherapy would cure his cancer, but at what stage it had reached, this was not discussed with me, if I had known that it had reached a very advanced stage, and medically it was impossible to cure, then I could have asked with my true heart and mind and my true emotion for the omnipotent to please please cure my friend who does not deserve dying as yet.



At the end of the day you know in the back of your head it's all bulldust, but it comforts you to believe it so you will find a way to make yourself believe it.

My reply:
Not quite, I won't dismiss it as such, since I have not been disappointed yet, where I have seriously prayed and asked for help, help did arrive. But if I offered true prayers f0r someone's life to be spared, and I did that with all my heart and soul, full of emotion, with heart felt feelings for both the Omnipotent and the person , then if that failed me, then I could say it is a load of BS. I really wished now that I could have done a little prayer for my friend, may have cost me no more than a few minutes, in trueness, but I was far too lazy and really thought he was not in a life threatening situation, so I now regret so much.



Mike you get yourself tied in so many knots over this. The problem starts because you refuse to acknowledge more than one god, which makes no sense. If you are of the mind to believe these things at all then overwhelmingly the evidence tells you there are many gods. Deny one of the gods and you deny them all. But believing in more than one god presents even more problems doesn’t it. If there are many gods they can’t all be the almighty. One of them must have come first and created the others. But which one came first? And where did that god come from? It’s a vicious circle of scenarios that don’t make sense and can’t be explained.

My reply:
I think that is how you perceive God as many Gods, and the creation of our Universe, you have absolute right to your views, and be they wrong or right, similarly mine are also my views, wrong or right, I based mine on pure logic. And though I don't dismiss more than one God, but I believe that there is afterall, only One God and he is the Absolute truth from which came everything else, and I don't think he created Energy, since we know energy cannot be created nor destroyed, He was that mighty energy, the master of all other energies put together, this Almighty God energy could create things from himself, and if he is capable of fabricating a universe he is also capable of manifesting into anything he desires, hence I do not dismiss sub Gods, such as those who came to earth from time to time such as in Hinduism, Lord Rama, and Lord Krishna are said to be manifestation of that God in the form of a human. If God can do anything, so he can also come to earth in any form, so here Islam says God can never take a form of a human, so clearly i disagree with Islam here.



So to avoid all that you invent a dream World of cats and dark energy. Your evidence is the existence of the universe. It exists and therefore it must have been created. But you can’t avoid the difficult questions just like that. Let’s assume for a moment that some gods did create the energy and the universe. We won’t argue over which one came first. How do we know those gods are good? Maybe they are actually bad and the universe is an evil experiment to watch us torture and kill each other. Maybe there are many universes – the gods might all have a universe each and are seeing which one destroys itself first. How do we know those gods still exist? Maybe they did but expired at the point of the creation. If they do exist how do we know they hear our prayers? If they can hear our prayers how do we know they can interpret them? Maybe our praying and worshipping confuses them. Maybe it annoys them. How do we even know that praying and worshipping is what we are supposed to do?

MY reply:
All of your questions are often raised in my head, yes there are times when i think like that, but then again I dismiss those questions by saying, I know nothing, how he listens to my or someone's prayers, he knows only, just as well, but prayers should be offered through your true heart, and for a good purpose and not evil.


To keep it simple, you have agreed that we know nothing about these things. You agree it’s all beyond our feeble comprehension.

My answer
Yes I totally agree, we know not much at all. There is a lot more we need to learn yet.


So why do you worship a god that you don’t know exists, don’t know if it even hears your prayers or even if praying is the correct thing to do. And if it does exist might be an evil entity just wishing you would hurry up and destroy yourself.

My reply:
No i don't doubt he exists, I don't know if I can call myself as worshipping that God, I don't particularly stop doing anything just to worship him by reciting his name several times daily, No I don't do that, I always remember him in the background most of the times, I do not have a time table that says I must go to a church on a certain day and worship him or like the Muslims pray 5 times a day and then go on a month long fasting during which time they do not eat from sun rise to sun set, , but in between they stuff a whole days worth of food to keep them going, that is not a proper fasting I would say, if you tuck in 2 meals in a go before the fasting starts. hey but then again that is them and they know better their religion. I know better my God. So i honestly do not worship a God, i strictly believe in one, he has not given me any compulsion to pray him 5 or 10 times a day, or go on fasting, he has not put any restrictions on me apart from using my head and do good things and turn away from evil things, like getting drunk, abusing anyone, disrespecting anyone, of any colour, since my belief says that he created everything from himself, hence everyone is part of that God himself, so in a way we are all Gods, or God is in us all, and in everything you see.

You know your god or gods better...

 

[breadnbutter]

Not quite my friend, to understand Quantum Physics, one needs to learn by first studying Newtonian Physics, along with knowledge of mathematics, and other science subjects, and so if you ask someone like me about quarks, I wouldn't have a clue what the heck quarks do and which way they spin and why they spin, as an example, I would be totally lost when it came to quantum physics or mechanics.

Likewise, those who don't possess the basic knowledge of religion, the rules of worship, how to concentrate your mind towards the omnipotent, then as a quantum scientist you make a very poor candidate to search for God, you wouldn't understand eon about the supernatural.

Scientist make lousy God busters!

God or religion is in your brain, he does not exist in the real world, its a small lobe at the base of the brain. if this is removed you lose religion!

i read a report of some guys ,who targeted a little girl, they shot her in the legs, then asked her if she believed in jesus, she said yes,then they shot her in the head. they deliberately targeted her because of her faith.

you can make your own choice and decisions, your free to search out what the bible says, or not bother,its your choice.
but attacking people for there believe,your just proving that man in his heart hates God.

 

[cajar]

Cast iron Proof that he doesnt exist. If he did, he would have prevented it.

 

[Norcon]

Cast iron Proof that he doesnt exist. If he did, he would have prevented it.

Tosh.