Anyone ride their bike to work?

[RonnyRaygun]

I'm tempted to fit a camera, to show some of the diabolical behaviour by some of these cyclists on a daily basis.

I agree that some cyclists' behaviour leaves a lot to be desired.
But as a cyclist (and a keen driver) I can see the glaring differences. As a cyclist you have to have eyes in the back of your head, you have to think three steps ahead, because you know that if you get hit, it's really going to hurt
We haven't got a tonne and a half of steel protecting us, and if you go under the wheels of a Range Rover the helmet you have on isn't going to help much...
Trust me, I won't do anything on my bike that would put me in danger. If I do that odds on I'm going to come off worse...and I'm not that stupid!
I realise cars aren't going to see me. It happens for more than one reason.
Drivers are cocooned in their car, pretty well protected against impact by seat belts, air bags, and crumple zones.
Blind spots reduce visibility so a cyclist simply isn't seen.
Music is on, or a conversation is being conducted.
But most of all, motorists simply don't think about the cyclist, and their minds blank out what they aren't expecting.
You might have seen this: Do the Test

I cycle through rush hour in London. I'm also a pretty quick cyclist. Due to this, I'm often going faster than most cars on the road...
So where should cycle past these cars? On the inside? Fine if there's a cycle lane. But what about when the lane suddenly (and with no apparent reason) disappears? Do I stay on the inside and break the law? Or move to the middle of the road and pass the cars on the outside?
Stay on the inside and cars aren't expecting a cyclist (they aren't expecting a cyclist when the cycle lane is there either) so don't look in their mirrors before turning left. *Sometimes* they do at least indicate, so you have time to take evasive action.
Move to the outside (and pass on the right, as the highway code dictates) and now you're running the gauntlet of not only the cars going in the same direction as you are, but also cars coming towards you. And the same still applies...they aren't expecting a cyclist so don't look in their mirrors when turning right...

And why is it, when I can comfortably sit at a 30mph speed limit with a slight following wind, *some* people are so desperate to overtake? And then cut back in to avoid the oncoming car? I have been close to being trapped between stationary and moving cars more times than I care to remember due to this...

You're probably wondering why I cycle! I enjoy it. It saves me a lot of money. It keeps me fit. I hate traffic jams! Trains are completely unreliable. And if I'm honest I'm a bit of an adrenaline junkie and thrive on the danger...

If cyclists have as much right to be on the road as motorists, then why is there no legislation in place to ensure they have appropriate INSURANCE.

I'm not necessarily against paying insurance. If it's just to cover third parties I would imagine the cost would be pretty reasonable...a cycle on average will cause a fraction of the damage that a car would.
But what would we then do about all the kids who ride their bikes on the road? Would the same apply to them? Or would they not be allowed on a bike on the road until the age of 16 and having passed CBT?

let alone road tax.

And as for road tax, I think, as a motorist also, I pay my share of road tax. You may argue that I should make a further contribution to the fund for my right to ride a bike on the road, but let's be honest here, roads are made for cars, and designed with cars in mind. Cars also do far more damage to road surfaces than cycles ever could.
Also cars do far more miles than cycles. The average car milage per year is what? 12000? I don't know a single cyclist who does anywhere near that. (I cycle 130 miles a week, 46 weeks a year, plus "leisure" cycling. What's that? A touch over 6000 miles, and that's far more than most).
And if I wasn't cycling those miles, I'd be driving them, so the road tax is already paid!

 

[RonnyRaygun]

As a cyclist and motorist I see both sides of the coin.
So I ride/drive with the maxim that you expect everyone else to do something idiotic and be prepared if they do.

I completely agree...

And to add to that, there is an argument that motorists who also cycle are more courteous to cyclists.
It's a line of reasoning that goes some way to explaining why so few cyclists are killed and injured in Holland (per head of population) compared to here.

 

[joinerjohn]

Ronnie, you may well cycle over 6000 miles per year, but how many miles do you drive? If say your company wanted to send you to Edinburgh or Dundee, perhaps to Inverness. You wouldn't expect them to tell you "On yer bike.". You'd probably drive.
You may well not drive 6000 miles per year, but any road tax etc you pay is for using a motor car on the road, not a cycle. I know some pensioners who live near me who probably drive less than 2000 miles per year, and yet pay the same amount of road tax that you pay. Should they be entitled to a rebate? . Cyclists , should pay something towards the cost of having them on the roads. Who do you think pay for the cost of installing cycle lanes? Certainly not the cyclists.

You say motorists don't look in their mirrors enough....... They have enough on (in London at least) to keep their eyes firmly fixed on the road ahead, without having to keep looking in their mirrors for cyclists overtaking them (whilst they legally turn right), or undertake them (whilst they legally turn left).
I'm not saying that all cyclists are like this , nor are likely to cause accidents, but as a minimum, cyclists should be made to pay something towards their upkeep on the roads. It's easy when there has been an accident involving a cyclist to immediately blame the motorist, simply because he has the car protecting him. How many times do we have to hear "The motorist should have taken more care?" When in fact we should be hearing " Why didn't the cyclist (being a lot more vulnerable) have taken even more care?"
Hmmmmmmm Cyclists should be made to take out personal and third party insurance. Children shouldn't be on the roads on cycles full stop. !!!

 

[RonnyRaygun]

Ronnie, you may well cycle over 6000 miles per year, but how many miles do you drive? If say your company wanted to send you to Edinburgh or Dundee, perhaps to Inverness. You wouldn't expect them to tell you "On yer bike.". You'd probably drive.

I drive around the same number of miles, 6000, and you're right, if I was going to Scotland, I wouldn't cycle, so it would be trains, planes, or automobiles for me in that instance.

You may well not drive 6000 miles per year, but any road tax etc you pay is for using a motor car on the road, not a cycle. I know some pensioners who live near me who probably drive less than 2000 miles per year, and yet pay the same amount of road tax that you pay. Should they be entitled to a rebate?

Actually, yes, I think they should. Personally I would tax motorists something like this:
I wouldn't tax motorists annually at all. I believe that it is only fair that if you do more miles, you pay more tax, so that leaves taxing the fuel. Wouldn't be popular I know, but it would generally be fairer.
I would then tax cars based on their environmental crudentials, at point of purchase, new or second hand; this would encourage even more the purchase of more environmentally friendly vehicles. After all, road tax is currently based on CO2 emissions, so I'd take it a step further...fewer miles, fewer CO2 emissions...we can start another thread on this if you like

Cyclists , should pay something towards the cost of having them on the roads. Who do you think pay for the cost of installing cycle lanes? Certainly not the cyclists.

Again, I see your point, but the idea of cycle lanes is to encourage cycling, for reasons related the congestion and the environment, so if the government suddenly asks cyclists to pay more money towards the installation and upkeep of these cycle lanes, it will simply discourage what they are trying to achieve.

You say motorists don't look in their mirrors enough....... They have enough on (in London at least) to keep their eyes firmly fixed on the road ahead...

All the more reason to be fully aware of what's going on around them. If I decided not to look over my shoulder before moving out to turn right, I don't think anyone would have much sympathy for me if I was injured.

...without having to keep looking in their mirrors for cyclists overtaking them (whilst they legally turn right), or undertake them (whilst they legally turn left)

Fair comment on the turning right. It does say in the Highway Code to stay in your lane in traffic, so I guess that also applies to cyclists and motorcyclists. But motorists also cut across cycle lanes all too often, with no warning to the cyclist. And pull onto roundabouts withour looking (or at least noticing) the cyclist heading straight on. Or turn right straight across an oncoming cyclist's path. Or pull out at junctions straight into cyclists' paths. Or overtake then immediately turn left. I could go on and on...

I'm not saying that all cyclists are like this , nor are likely to cause accidents, but as a minimum, cyclists should be made to pay something towards their upkeep on the roads. It's easy when there has been an accident involving a cyclist to immediately blame the motorist, simply because he has the car protecting him. How many times do we have to hear "The motorist should have taken more care?" When in fact we should be hearing " Why didn't the cyclist (being a lot more vulnerable) have taken even more care?"

That doesn't even warrant discussion. The amount of care should be equal from all parties; treat others as you would expect to be treated yourself.

Hmmmmmmm Cyclists should be made to take out personal and third party insurance.

Why personal insurance? Many, many motorists don't have comprehensive insurance, why should cyclists?

Children shouldn't be on the roads on cycles full stop. !!!

So you would stop all kids riding around their Cul-de-Sac? Or what about teenagers who just want to go to see their mates a couple of miles away after school, or head to the local bmx park? Are you taking away some of the independence and freedom that all teenagers crave? Did you have a bike when you were a child/teenager, and did you ride it on the roads? If not, you are in a tiny minority

 

[ellal]

Cyclists , should pay something towards the cost of having them on the roads. Who do you think pay for the cost of installing cycle lanes? Certainly not the cyclists.

So Cyclists aren't tax payers then? And are bikes VAT free?

But why stop there?... Should Pedestrians contribute to the upkeep of pavements based on their usage?...Do pedestrians not pay tax either?...fit 'em all with pedometers!

I don't use the local swimming pool but still pay for it, in the same way as some people pay for the library that I use and they don't..

So here's a novel idea - why don't we get away from specific bean counting and realise that despite the devil woman claiming "there is no such thing as society", we actually need one so that everyone gets to do what they want/need without having to make what is often the worst choice because it's based on individual finances!

 

[daozen]

Fact is cyclists have as much right as any other road user and as such should be treated like any other road user. Just because you're impatient don't try and kill me you morons!

There's bad cyclists that ignore lights etc just as there are motorists that ignore lights etc. Though I've never seen a cyclist using a mobile phone, or doing their make up whilst cycling.

My experience is that those cycle paths on the side of the road are full of holes and glass as are the gutters motorists seem to think we should ride in.

As to the road tax, as far as I'm aware apart from the odd bit of methane cycling is 0 emissions therefore 0 road tax. Insurance? My bike is covered by insurance and so am I, I need to be!

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

he doesnt pay to use the f**king road like we do!

I cycle to work most day, Since returning to work from the Christmas break, I have only drove in once to work, the rest of time I have ridden in on the bike.
I have a car.
I pay for MOT, road tax and insurance, but it's park on my drive the majority of the time.
As I don't use that mode of transport to travel, I prefer the healthy way and the most environmentally friendly one.
So I pay my dues as far as the road tax is concerned. I keep healthy, hopefully reducing the need of the NHS services (providing no nutter runs me over that is)
and biking instead of car travel, reduces carbon emissions.
I do my bit, so think I am worth a freebie on the bike!

 

[holmslaw]

Most cyclists and motor cyclists are too stupid to be allowed out on their own.

 

[Stivino]

Most cyclists and motor cyclists are too stupid to be allowed out on their own.

In response to that, I don't think you should be allowed to drive a car until you've experienced driving a pushbike or motorcycle. It makes you much more aware of what's going on around you and teaches you to watch out for other road users, especially those cocooned in a vehicle.

 

[RonnyRaygun]

So Cyclists aren't tax payers then? And are bikes VAT free?

Actually mine was VAT, NI, and PAYE free, on the Cycle To Work scheme...
That's got to wind up the Daily Mail readers out there

 

[holmslaw]

I took and passed a cycling profiency test when I was about 10 years old. And there was lot of emphasis on obeying the law and the highway code.
And most importantly we were taught not to undertake and to be aware of drivers blind spots.

There have been a number of fatalities caused by cycliists being crushed under the back wheels of lorries turning left after stopping at traffic lights. Unbeknown to the lorry driver a cyclist was trying to squeeze up the inside of the lorry, gets to halfway, lights change to green, another darwin award candidate.

In the past month there have been two cyclists killed on the same stretch of road near where I live. On that very same stretch, and in the last month, and in the dark, I've seen two cyclists cycling along the centre of the road, no lights and no hi-vis kit.

And I love that daft ad about looking out for motor bikes. Car driver wants to turn right, he looks left, looks right and left again and pulls out. Bang he's hit by a motorbike doing about 80mph, thats why the car driver did'nt see him. I believe hospital A and E departments call them donors.

 

[RonnyRaygun]

There have been a number of fatalities caused by cycliists being crushed under the back wheels of lorries turning left after stopping at traffic lights. Unbeknown to the lorry driver a cyclist was trying to squeeze up the inside of the lorry, gets to halfway, lights change to green, another darwin award candidate.

Yup, no excuse for that really...

In the past month there have been two cyclists killed on the same stretch of road near where I live. On that very same stretch, and in the last month, and in the dark, I've seen two cyclists cycling along the centre of the road, no lights and no hi-vis kit.

And that's just plain idiotic.

But idiots like that are only endangering themselves (most of the time). If a motorist is drunk, talking - or worse, texting - on a mobile phone, fiddling with an ipod or CD player, or doing make-up, or (and I saw this once on the M25) reading the bloody paper , or even breaking the speed limit (and every driver I know, myself included, does that from time to time), it puts everybody on the road in danger.

There are idiot cyclists, and there are idiot motorists. An idiot cyclist will probably get themselves killed, an idiot motorist may well kill someone else.

 

[ellal]

So Cyclists aren't tax payers then? And are bikes VAT free?

Actually mine was VAT, NI, and PAYE free, on the Cycle To Work scheme...
That's got to wind up the Daily Mail readers out there

Nope, that's a tax reduction at source. VAT is still paid even if the cost is reduced, and VAT reclaimed - as is the case with any business transaction.

 

[daozen]

Most cyclists and motor cyclists are too stupid to be allowed out on their own.

Whereas 99.9% of motorist are too stupid to be allowed control of a couple of tons of fast moving metal.

Dont believe me? Add a little shower of rain to the morning commute see what happens. Either hardly anyone can drive in weather other than dry and warm or every moron in the country times their journey for the wet weather.

I remember standing by a closed road at the top of a steep hill during the cold snap which had iced over and having to argue with idiots in "four wheel drive cars" that four wheels drive vehicles aren't immune to ice.

 

[LooPrEvil]

I cycle and drive, admittedly I do more driving than cycling, as almost every cyclist will.

But cyclists thinking that paying a bit of VAT on a bike that, generally, costs less than £150 is contributing to road maintenance etc, are totallly (well I wont say because I am too much of a gentlman). I pay a damn site more vat when I buy a car, yet still pay tax on fuel, insurance, maintenance, servicing, road licence, driving licence - shall I stop now? !

I pay vat on a mars bar - I wonder what that contributes to society? !!


Lou.