Anyone ride their bike to work?

[sooey]

Hmmm, passing a parked vehicle...which cyclists are allowed to do! All too often motorists seem to think cyclists have the ability to go over or through parked cars!

Give it a rest pal. He was twenty yards at least before the parked car when the van went past him. He's a bolshy pr*ck trying to enforce his percieved rights on other traffic. I don't reckon he's got much chance of a long life if he carries on like that. The silly bstrd might do it to a bus or an artic next with a bit of luck.

 

[ellal]

Hey Ronny..

How come anyone pointing out where you are wrong is classed by you as being 'pedantic'?...

 

[joinerjohn]

Actually, you do not purchase the cycle through a salary sacrifice scheme. The employer owns the property. Ownership of the property only transfers to you at the end of their salary sacrifice agreement if you make a further one off payment, equating to what is considered to be a reasonable market value. If this payment is not made then ownership does not transfer and remains with the employer, who can then dispose of the property through what ever suitable manner they desire.

Lou.

So in essence, the employee has had salary reductions for , let's say a year to pay for the bicycle. When he makes the last payment, the bicycle , still belongs to the employer, unless the employee makes a further payment to the employer?
What's to stop an unscrupulous employer turning round and saying to the employee, "That'll be another hundred pounds, or we'll have the bike."??

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

Unless his employer is registered as a credit agency the maximum value he can have under a salary sacrifice scheme is £1000, includes the value of all cycle accessories, clothing and the bike itself.

Most people get bikes to the value of £150 to £250 which to be honest are the cheap end of the market, with low quality components. Chris Boardman (Olympic Cycling Champ) designed a range of cycles that are sold through Halfords and are of an excellent quality, and good value for money, but you can be talking at about £1000 for them.

The most expensive bike I have seen was a specialist mountain bike valued at £7500 (that was about 10 years ago) and you could buy a decent new car for less! It was the first time I had also seen disc brakes on a cycle.

Lou.

Lou.

beru f1 produced a bike that cost £22k, can you get them on the bike to work scheme?
and as far as the most expensive bikes, I remember the Lance Armstrong cancer appeal, auctioned bikes off at massive sums of money.
I recently watch something on BBC4, about the history of the bike.
A guy on there travelled the word for all the best bike components, so he could have a self built bike, the parts and the spray up, ended up costing £4k. Looked a great bit of kit though.

 

[RonnyRaygun]

I dunno...6000 miles down the line, it's pretty battered...most bikes don't do that in a lifetime!!

Then it was not a good buy, even for 1p. You should have entered into another agreement instead, and got a better quality cycle.

I'm not the sort of person who replaces things which have a lot of life left in them. You can't claim environmental credentials of cycling to work and then replace the bike every year. Think of the carbon footprint of the manufacturing process.
I was joking about it being battered. In fact the only components I replaced in the first year were tyres and inner tubes (a lot of them!), disc brake pads (a lot of them!) and handle grips.
I've had the bike 17 months now and finally I'm going to have to replace the chainset and related components. I'm amazed I've done 8000 odd miles on one chainset to be honest...

 

[RonnyRaygun]

Hey Ronny..

How come anyone pointing out where you are wrong is classed by you as being 'pedantic'?...

I wasn't trying to get into a discussion on the technicalities of the relative differences between direct purchase, hire purchase, loan agreements, rental agreements or whatever else.

Most people would agree that in real terms anyone who gets a bike through the cycle scheme makes approximately a 40% saving on what they would have spent if they'd have walked into the bike shop themselves and bought the bike out of their take home pay.

But I do agree with you. The government set up this scheme for their own benefit, and must've worked out that in the long run they would save money by giving people a tax break on the purchase of a bike.

 

[RonnyRaygun]

Hmmm, passing a parked vehicle...which cyclists are allowed to do! All too often motorists seem to think cyclists have the ability to go over or through parked cars!

Give it a rest pal. He was twenty yards at least before the parked car when the van went past him.

20 yards is as close as you want to get before pulling out. If you suddenly swerve five yards from the car, that would be far worse...

 

[RonnyRaygun]

RonnyRaygun
Just out of interest what make/model of bike is it?
Did you also get any accessories/clothing on loan too?

It's a Scott Sportster, mid range, price in the shop was £420 if I remember correctly, but it had already been reduced being the previous year's model.
I did get some lights at the same time. You can also put hi-vis, panniers, clothing, anything that you use on your journey can form part of the salary sacrifice.

 

[RonnyRaygun]

Unless his employer is registered as a credit agency the maximum value he can have under a salary sacrifice scheme is £1000, includes the value of all cycle accessories, clothing and the bike itself.

Most people get bikes to the value of £150 to £250 which to be honest are the cheap end of the market, with low quality components. Chris Boardman (Olympic Cycling Champ) designed a range of cycles that are sold through Halfords and are of an excellent quality, and good value for money, but you can be talking at about £1000 for them.

The most expensive bike I have seen was a specialist mountain bike valued at £7500 (that was about 10 years ago) and you could buy a decent new car for less! It was the first time I had also seen disc brakes on a cycle.

Lou.

The most expensive bike I've ever bought was back in 2001 when I spent £1600 on a Gary Fisher Excalibur hardtail mountain bike. For that you got hydraulic disc brakes, top of the range Shimano XTR groupset, suspension seat post, quality Bontrager wheels and it all amounted to a bike that weighed around 22lb (very light).

A good friend of mine spent 5k on an Orange downhill machine...

As you spend more it obeys the laws of diminishing returns. Unless you are a top competition cyclist you aren't going to see any real benefit from spending significantly more than a couple of grand.

You can get bikes made by Porsche and Ferrari, and they cost around the £10k mark. I'm sure they have some fantastic components but something like that is far more about bragging rights than a mode of transport.

I cycled across the USA in 2006 on a racer that cost me £400. Did have to replace the wheels but not surprising when I was carrying about 25kg over the back wheel!

 

[LooPrEvil]

So in essence, the employee has had salary reductions for , let's say a year to pay for the bicycle. When he makes the last payment, the bicycle , still belongs to the employer, unless the employee makes a further payment to the employer?
What's to stop an unscrupulous employer turning round and saying to the employee, "That'll be another hundred pounds, or we'll have the bike."??

Nothing JJ. However the employer can only ask for the fair market value (ie how much could a product of similar condition and age be purchased for from elsewhere).

If the employer asks for a ridiculous price I suppose it could be bought to the attention of HMRC, but then again the employer cannot force you to purchase it, so you just walk away and then he is stuck with the asset, which the company accountant will have to value for the companies profit and loss account, and that must reflect a realistic value!

Lou.

 

[LooPrEvil]

don't forget there can be downsides to salary sacrifice schemes, ie it could affect your pension (if you are approaching retirement) because you are considered to be earning less than you are (hence the schemes name: Salary SACRIFICE).

Say you earn £30k and use the scheme to buy something under the scheme to the value of £2k, then you have sacrificed £2k of your salary and any pension calculations will be based on you earning £28k for that particular year.

The same applies to redundancy. If during the period of your agreement you are made redundant, your redundancy pay will be calculated on your reduced earnings (ie £28k in the example above, NOT £30k). Plus you still have to payback any remaining payments due on the purchase (unless your employer decides to stand the cost)!!

Lou.

 

[RonnyRaygun]

don't forget there can be downsides to salary sacrifice schemes, ie it could affect your pension (if you are approaching retirement) because you are considered to be earning less than you are (hence the schemes name: Salary SACRIFICE).

Say you earn £30k and use the scheme to buy something under the scheme to the value of £2k, then you have sacrificed £2k of your salary and any pension calculations will be based on you earning £28k for that particular year.

The same applies to redundancy. If during the period of your agreement you are made redundant, your redundancy pay will be calculated on your reduced earnings (ie £28k in the example above, NOT £30k). Plus you still have to payback any remaining payments due on the purchase (unless your employer decides to stand the cost)!!

Lou.

True, also, people on minimum wage can't take advantage of the salary sacrifice scheme as any salary sacrifice would take them below minimum wage. So the people who may benefit most from the scheme are unable to...

 

[joinerjohn]

Lou, the whole point is that the employee has sacrificed some of his/her salary to pay for the bicycle, therefore it follows that the employer can't charge anywhere near the fair market value. How much has the bicycle actually cost the company? Take away how much the employee has contributed towards that cost and you'll then have an equitable price.
As far as I can make out, these salary sacrifice schemes, are glorified "item rental" schemes.

 

[LooPrEvil]

Lou, the whole point is that the employee has sacrificed some of his/her salary to pay for the bicycle, therefore it follows that the employer can't charge anywhere near the fair market value. How much has the bicycle actually cost the company? Take away how much the employee has contributed towards that cost and you'll then have an equitable price.
As far as I can make out, these salary sacrifice schemes, are glorified "item rental" schemes.

They are a cheaper way to acquire a certain product or service (you can get bus tickets and childcare vouchers etc through such schemes).

The residual value of the item also has to take into account wear and tear. Two identical cycles obtained under such a scheme can have a vastly different usage, and the impact that has on the residual value will make it a variable.

And don't forget that the scheme provider (which is NOT the employer), take a cut of the purchase cost, which in terms of bicycles is usually a 10% commission for companies such as Cyclescheme, Sodexho and Halfords who actually facilitate the scheme.

Lou.

 

[LooPrEvil]

As far as I can make out, these salary sacrifice schemes, are glorified "item rental" schemes.

That partly correct JJ (from the employees perspective). The employer is basically funding the arrangement as they pay upfront for the product / service and you repay your employer for basically loaning you the equipment - hence the title to the property remains with the employer until the employee decides whether or not they want to make the fair market value to receive title to the goods from the employer.

Don't worry too much about fair market value, because as you will know, generally a second hand product has a much lower market value than a new item, and the price has to be reasonable to interest a potential buyer.

Lou.