If it goes through a DP switch, in what way is it connected to the rest of the installation?
appliance isolaters
- Thread starter spudkey
- Start date
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If you wish to rely on equipment after it has been ravaged by fire, feel free.
There are still some who seem to confuse the application of BS7671 in a domestic environment and in a work environment which is subjected to a whole raft of other standardsm guidance, laws etc...
Please, someone tell me if and how a 20A DP switch satisfies ALL the requirments for Isolation? And exactly how will you prove it dead so that it satsifies the requirements for isolation before you gain access to live parts?
And 513??? Where does that leave a Main Switch located inside and enclosure, under the stairs and behind the hoover and the kid's toys? That's because it says 'significant'. There are many much more inaccessible switches and control equipment locked in away in all manner of industrial and commerical situations than having to open a kitchen cupboard and having to bend down and move two cans of Mr. Sheen to one side.
What a bunch of pedants you lot are. You seem to spend all your time arguing amongst each other. I thought the main purpose of this forum was to provide general and reliable help and advice to DIY posters. They must leave here more confused than ever. How can you inspire confidence when you can't even agree amongst yourselves?
Speaking personally, I would prefer my installation to be over engineered. I don't believe there are any regulations against this.
FR, I have to say that since joining this forum, you give every impression of wanting to argue and split hairs with the other regular contributors. Why not save your fire for a genuine dispute? To the rest of you, if you persist in having long disputes over regulations (on which, clearly, there is no consensus), you risk diminishing the value of the advice you offer to DIYers.
Speaking personally, I would prefer my installation to be over engineered. I don't believe there are any regulations against this.
FR, I have to say that since joining this forum, you give every impression of wanting to argue and split hairs with the other regular contributors. Why not save your fire for a genuine dispute? To the rest of you, if you persist in having long disputes over regulations (on which, clearly, there is no consensus), you risk diminishing the value of the advice you offer to DIYers.
A switch that is not is plain view, and either labelled, or obvious in its purpose, is not "accessible"
If you can't see it when you need it, it might as well not be there.
If the switch has been hidden inside one of twelve kitchen cupboards, and you don't know which, concealed possibly behind a stack of tins or the breadmaker, or is hidden under the stairs, with a lawn-mower and crate of beer in front of it, it is pretty well useless.
If you can't see it when you need it, it might as well not be there.
If the switch has been hidden inside one of twelve kitchen cupboards, and you don't know which, concealed possibly behind a stack of tins or the breadmaker, or is hidden under the stairs, with a lawn-mower and crate of beer in front of it, it is pretty well useless.
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I didn't say anything about relying on it, I asked in what way it would still be connected to the rest of the installation.
I must have missed the bits in BS7671 where it says that fundamentally it does not apply to domestic environments.
Is it a requirement?
That word implies a statutory legal obligation, and on that basis the answer is no.
Is it recommended?
Yes, and if this is a new install you should do it, because the wiring regulations say so, good design says so, and common sense says so.
I know it’s difficult to spot, but everybody above also say so, they are just arguing about the best position to do it
But give some thought in your design to where you put the fridge / freezer isolators, as you don’t want somebody turning those appliances off accidentally.
John, the most important switch in a domestic electrical installation is the Main Switch. It is the only true Isolator. Yet it is concealed behind a hinged cover, often in one of the most inaccessible locations in a house (or a garage). Yet there are no explicit Regs regarding their location. Many people don't even know where their stop cock is. I can't foresee any reason why any electrical equipment in a home would require immediate emergency switching. People talk about faults, fires and freak accidents yet there is nothing in the Regulations nor in manufacturers instructions that requires emergency switching/stopping or BS7671 defined Isolation. If electricians can't be arsed to label sockets or plug tops, then it's a matter of poor workmanship and nothing to do with compliance or non-compliance.
Another consideration is the number of switches and SFCUs and socket outlets caked up with grease and muck in...er...less clean houses that I've come across on PIRs annd which were the cause of an Unsatisfactory. One of the worst is invariably the socket above the cupboards for the extractor. By contrast, in the same houses, sockets in the cupboards of such manky houses have been in good nick and relatively clean and defect free. In other kitchens, the cupboard sockets have been cracked and abused and those above the worktops have been fine. I've also seen housewives washing down their switches and SFCUs!!! Talk about risk.
There are no hard and fast rules. Sockets placed in cupboards aren't against any Regs and so are acceptable. Whether or not it's better to place such switching above worktops is subjective. At least with sockets in cupboards, TRUE isolation can be achieved for built in appliances because the plug top can be removed without having to remove the appliances.
BS7671 applies to domestic electrical installations. I'm surprised that you think it may not. Plse see 110-01 and 110-02 for clarification of what BS7671 does and does not apply to.
BAS, I know you like to take things out of context in an attempt to prove your point. It's a sly politiciian's trick and does you no favours.
in my kitchen, i connected a dp neon switch into the ring circuit above the worktop where my washing machine is, and from the load side i connected a single non switched socket to behind the washing machine and when i had it checked with labc they were very happy with my setup, the only thing they commented on was the fact that it wasn't labelled, so to the original poster, it is a good idea, saves you having to pull the washing machine out to switch it off if it springs a leak
What have I taken out of context?
You asked why someone thought that isolation as defined in BS7671 applied to domestic electrical installations, and I pointed out that BS7671 applies to domestic electrical installations, and highlighted the relevant parts of its scope.
You asked why someone thought that isolation as defined in BS7671 applied to domestic electrical installations, and I pointed out that BS7671 applies to domestic electrical installations, and highlighted the relevant parts of its scope.
If you were to change appliances and the new appliance carried a different rating than the old one is it just a case of fitting the appropriate fuse at the FCU?
Yup.
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