As I was saying

[ban-all-sheds]

=======================================================
All:
How about someone writing an objective (free of opinions), straighforward FAQ on Power Supplies for LEDs & incandescents, of the common types?
Cover Voltage, AC, DC, "Low" voltage, Linear, Switched mode, constant current, non-dimmable, dimmable by current/voltage/PWM. Say what you're likely to get if you buy a Transformer, or an Electronic Transformer, or a Driver. Cover what happens if you have it wrong, eg flicker, failures, etc.
It would need to cover what things are actually called, even if it's "wrong". Boilers don't boil water, but we manage.
Suggest use of numbers eg FAQ: Supply type #3 etc.

See your handiwork enshrined in the annals of DIYNOT.
(Yes I meant 2 "n"s).
Mod
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That's going to require certain people to accept the existence of constant voltage LED drivers, electronic transformers, and so on, and to commit to not editing the Wiki page to reflect their idea of what reality should be (unlike what has happened to the Wikipedia page on switch-mode power supplies in the past).

There are things INCORRECTLY called constant voltage LED drivers. There really are.

But that does not mean that that is what they are.

Likewise there are things INCORRECTLY called electronic transformers. But that also does not mean that that is what they are.

"Incorrect" is a judgement call which has no place in any document such as is being proposed here.

I disagree.

So be aware, everyone, not only will the FAQ suggested do nothing to curb Winston, he actively refuses to go along with the "objective (free of opinions)" part.

And the site doesn't want to stop him. The opposite, in fact.

 

[bernardgreen]

That's going to require certain people to accept the existence of constant voltage LED drivers,

Technically that is impossible. An LED driver is a controlled current device. Applying a constant voltage to an LED element is likely to destroy the LED element by over current as there is nothing in the LED element to control the current flowing through the LED. An LED lamp will have an element and a suitable driver in the lamp.

Most people accept the the industry is mis-labelling devices. That has gone too far to be reversed. To help people the mis-labelling and its consequences has to be explained.

 

[pete50]

I honestly cannot understand why anybody takes the advice given by the so called "tradesmen" on this site as correct or helpful is beyond me. When a discussion starts there is always argument and counter argument and none of the advice can be relied on. This board is good entertainment and when the "ilks" and the "anti-ilks" get going it is far better than the telly, especially now with the football on. But that is all it is. I know another forum that I am on like that as well. In fact there are a few, excellent entertainment.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

That's going to require certain people to accept the existence of constant voltage LED drivers,

Technically that is impossible.

No - it is not technically impossible for you to accept, that like it or not, and no matter how much it offends your sense of naming purity, there are such things as constant voltage LED drivers.

An LED driver is a controlled current device.

And a constant voltage one is a controlled voltage device.

So are you suggesting that these people are lying? That if someone uses their constant voltage LED driver as they describe that they will destroy their lights?

If so, get onto the ASA and TSO, and get them slapped down. Moaning about it here won't do any good, will it.

To help people the mis-labelling and its consequences has to be explained.

The trouble is your idea of "explaining" is telling people not to buy things which are just what they need, but which have a name you don't like.


Anyway - I'm done with this now - you can carry on arguing with others, or with an empty room for all I care - I'm out. It is clear that no matter what anybody says to you or asks you to do, neither you nor Winston will ever stop your campaign against names you dislike, played out by denying reality and sabotaging topic after topic after topic here.

 

[bernardgreen]

Moaning about it here won't do any good, will it.

But as has been said and which you choose to ignore is that this site could be pro-active in pointing out the problems the mis-naming has led to and will continue to lead to

LED drivers


And Low voltage. are these producing Low Voltage or 12 volts ? ( how often you react to the mis-naming of 12 volts as Low Voltage )

 

[winston1]

there are such things as constant voltage LED drivers.

No there are not. There are things that are incorrectly called that but that does not mean there are such things.

So are you suggesting that these people are lying?

I don't think anyone is suggesting that. They are just ignorant of the facts.

Anyway - I'm done with this now -

Excellent.

 

[JohnW2]

I honestly cannot understand why anybody takes the advice given by the so called "tradesmen" on this site as correct or helpful is beyond me. When a discussion starts there is always argument and counter argument and none of the advice can be relied on.

That's partially because it is a complex and imperfect world, with electrical work governed by regulations which are far from perfect, such that there is a lot of scope for varying opinions and interpretations.

However, for what it's worth, you should perhaps realise that this is a DIY forum and that many of the most prolific contributors here are not "tradesmen", with or without the quote marks.

In any event, the fact that one should never rely on information obtained 'via the internet', whether in a discussion forum or elsewhere, is simply a statement of the obvious

Kind Regards, John

 

[EFLImpudence]

Perhaps the real problem is naming the original device after a person who controls a vehicle (or cattle).

 

[bernardgreen]

Perhaps the real problem is naming the original device after a person who controls a vehicle (or cattle).

Or a bus driver http://www.ti.com/product/SN74LS244 ( just specified some of these in a design )

 

[EFLImpudence]

Do they match your narrow definition or are they wrong as well?

 

[JohnW2]

Perhaps the real problem is naming the original device after a person who controls a vehicle (or cattle).

Perhaps, but that was merely an extension of what had been happening to/with the word long before anyone had even dreamed of LEDs - as in "screwdriver", "nut driver", a 'driver' golf club etc. etc. Once electronics came along, we started seeing all sorts of 'drivers' (display drivers etc. etc.).

Kind Regards, John

 

[EFLImpudence]

Yes, but are they constant current "screwdrivers", "nut drivers", 'drivers' golf clubs etc. etc.?

 

[bernardgreen]

Do they match your narrow definition or are they wrong as well?

They drive signals onto a data bus. They do not supply power to a data bus.

 

[EFLImpudence]

So, they're NOT drivers, then.

 

[JohnW2]

Yes, but are they constant current "screwdrivers", "nut drivers", 'drivers' golf clubs etc. etc.?

I'm not sure I understand the question. Most, probably all, of those words can be qualified, if /when appropriate/necessary - -e.g. screwdrivers may be manual, electric, ratchet, posidrive etc. etc.

if we didn't use words in many different ways, with meaning in any case either obvious from context and/or clarified by qualification, there would probably be an unworkably large number of unique words in the English language.

Kind Regards, John