Astounded OBD Codes

[chirpychippy]

Why?

Why are there scanners that can delete OBD codes.

This is sour grapes but an issue that can see buyers like myself put in a situation of incredible stress when they purchase a second hand vehicle where the obd codes have been erased without repair.

I bought a van recently and within 14 miles the engine went into limp mode and threw up a cacophony of engine management faults, I took the vehicle back to the trader advised the vehicle was unfit for purpose and requested a refund under the consumer rights act.

They refused. They then plugged the vehicle into a diagnostic machine and deleted the codes in front of me and played dumb. I then enquired why my photo showed engine management fault codes at the given mileage and time yet suddenly after the connection of their diagnostics the codes disappeared, I then enquired as to how their actions would stand up in court, this is ongoing, my aunt and Sister and Nieces are Solicitors.


How does a buyer of second vehicles stand a chance when an engine fault can be so easily hidden.

I think it stinks.

 

[Burnerman]

You need scanners to be able to delete OBD codes so you can see if the fault reappears - better scanners tell you when the original scan was done and it stores them in it's memory. Of course, the dash lamp goes out at that time once cleared but if the fault is still there it will be back.
If the fault code was historic it won't have any affect on the running or price of the vehicle.
After 14 miles of use, I'd be back at the dealer informing them of referral to legal advisors!
John

 

[chirpychippy]

You need scanners to be able to delete OBD codes so you can see if the fault reappears - better scanners tell you when the original scan was done and it stores them in it's memory. Of course, the dash lamp goes out at that time once cleared but if the fault is still there it will be back.
If the fault code was historic it won't have any affect on the running or price of the vehicle.
After 14 miles of use, I'd be back at the dealer informing them of referral to legal advisors!
John

The dealer point blankly refused to refund until I showed them the fault codes they had deleted, at which point I rang my niece and sought advice outside of the consumer rights act.

I informed the seller that I was seeking legal advice and noting their refusal of a refund in the process. They said if the codes reappeared they would arrange collection of the vehicle and a full refund, I have this in writing.

The codes reappeared when I took the van home, I am aware of my consumer rights. I immediately informed the seller and have further photographic evidence. I emailed then advising of a rejection of the vehicle as unfit for purpose requesting collection and reimbursement which they have agreed to.

If they don't I will have an independent review of the vehicle including the mileage at the time of the deletion of the obd codes, a review of the MOT, I will report them to trading standards and to the AA who accredited them, then begin legal proceedings which will include compensation for stress out of pocket expenses in addition to the vehicle cost.

Play stupid games win stupid prizes.

 

[Burnerman]

Good for you mate....hit them in the only place it hurts.
The wallet.
Let’s know how you get on.
John

 

[johnny2007]

If they run under a limited company they would simply fold the company and you'll be out of pocket.
Lots of dealers do the same thing to dozens of people and fold, only to reopen next day under a different name.
Hopefully your dealer will not be one of them.

 

[chirpychippy]

If they run under a limited company they would simply fold the company and you'll be out of pocket.
Lots of dealers do the same thing to dozens of people and fold, only to reopen next day under a different name.
Hopefully your dealer will not be one of them.

The van dealer has just refunded my account in full for the cost of the van, unexpectedly. followed by a telephone call to apologise for all of the stress and inconvenience and advising they are sending a recovery truck tomorrow to collect the van.

I think this is a brilliant outcome, says alot about the ethics of the business.

 

[Burnerman]

We're all breathing a sigh of relief for you there.......it doesn't always end so honourably!
John

 

[carmanmemoranda]

Good news.

Now the stress is hopefully over a comment about codes and deletion.

Codes, and warning lights can happen for myriads of reasons, not all are actual faults. Even a voltage surge or drop can cause them

It's fairly common to delete codes, and see what, if any, returns after a road test before diagnosing any fault..

The issue here appears that they didn't do a road test or repairs. Not defending them, just pointing out some reasons .

Did you do a test drive before purchase ?

 

[Mottie]

If they run under a limited company they would simply fold the company and you'll be out of pocket.
Lots of dealers do the same thing to dozens of people and fold, only to reopen next day under a different name.
Hopefully your dealer will not be one of them.

I used to know a car dealer that when they sold a known pig of a car, if the customer started claiming for a refund, they'd agree to a full refund and then pay someone to either steal or crash into the car the night before the return.

 

[johnny2007]

The van dealer has just refunded my account in full for the cost of the van, unexpectedly. followed by a telephone call to apologise for all of the stress and inconvenience and advising they are sending a recovery truck tomorrow to collect the van.

I think this is a brilliant outcome, says alot about the ethics of the business.

Good dealer.
You should name them as the honest ones are becoming rare.

 

[Avocet]

Good news.

Now the stress is hopefully over a comment about codes and deletion.

Codes, and warning lights can happen for myriads of reasons, not all are actual faults. Even a voltage surge or drop can cause them

It's fairly common to delete codes, and see what, if any, returns after a road test before diagnosing any fault..

The issue here appears that they didn't do a road test or repairs. Not defending them, just pointing out some reasons .

Did you do a test drive before purchase ?

Agreed. I periodically "empty" any fault codes out of Mrs. Avocet's car. Some need dealing with, others (like the collision avoidance radar fault or a parking sensor fault), are just because there was a leaf or some mud, over the sensor. As you say, not all fault codes are actually something wrong with the car.

 

[chirpychippy]

Good news.

Now the stress is hopefully over a comment about codes and deletion.

Codes, and warning lights can happen for myriads of reasons, not all are actual faults. Even a voltage surge or drop can cause them

It's fairly common to delete codes, and see what, if any, returns after a road test before diagnosing any fault..

The issue here appears that they didn't do a road test or repairs. Not defending them, just pointing out some reasons .

Did you do a test drive before purchase ?

I did test drive prior to purchase and took the van up to 90mph and nothing, very quiet, no shakes no knocks, service history seemed cosher, engine oil was clear, oil filter brand new.

Drove it home in heavy rain, both times between 60&70mph under acceleration, it went into Limp mode and displayed esp/asr take vehicle for repair, engine fault take vehicle for repair.

Could be a sensor, could be electrical...could be could be could be....

No Thanks.

 

[carmanmemoranda]

I did test drive prior to purchase and took the van up to 90mph and nothing, very quiet, no shakes no knocks, service history seemed cosher, engine oil was clear, oil filter brand new.

Drove it home in heavy rain, both times between 60&70mph under acceleration, it went into Limp mode and displayed esp/asr take vehicle for repair, engine fault take vehicle for repair.

Could be a sensor, could be electrical...could be could be could be....

No Thanks.

As I said, I wasn't defending them, just a view from the other side.

Codes being deleted are a common thing, a 1st step in diagnosis usually.

 

[chirpychippy]

As I said, I wasn't defending them, just a view from the other side.

Codes being deleted are a common thing, a 1st step in diagnosis usually.

I wasn't implying that you were defending them.

I do see the logic of deleting the codes now you have explained it to me.

The dealer reimbursed me and I still have their van on my drive awaiting collection.

I think the Dealer has been professional in resolving the issue quite quickly, A more unscrupulous dealer would have messed me about.

An unfortunate set of circumstances for both parties.

 

[mattylad]

Did you by chance let them know that you have legal profession family?
That may be the reason for them paying you rather than them being a good dealership.