At risk notice: "Gas pipe not using correct entry/exit point of meter box"

[NeilPalfreyman]

Hi!

I've had a rental property (I'm the landlord) with a gas boiler for over ten years now, and it's had a gas safety test and CP12 issued every year, from multiple different gas safe engineers, none of whom have ever registered any problems/issues.

It's just had a smart meter fitted by Ovo at the request of the tenant (no other changes) and the fitting engineer left the tenant with an "at risk" notice for the meter box stating "gas pipe not using correct entry/exit point of meter box."

The Ovo engineer ticked the "This appliance/installation has been classified as AT RISK, turned off to make safe and labelled "Do Not Use" box on the notice, then "mitigated" it (in the sense that they left the gas on) by ticking the "The Responsible Person refused to allow required Safety Actions following the identification of an At Risk and has assumed legal responsibility" box. Annoyingly they did all this without contacting my agent or me.

I've included a photo of the box/pipework and would welcome any views of Gas Registered Engineers on this.

Do they have me over a barrel (as I suspect they do?)

If so please advise about possible fixes:
Could I get a gas fitter to loop the consumer side gas down and then back up to join the external pipe outside of the box?
Would the closeness of a re-routed pipe to the door opening give me any other regulation issues? (e.g. clearance)
Would it be possible to replace the meter box cover without having to touch the supply side?

Any other comments/sympathy also appreciated!

Thanks in anticipation...

 

[danfre]

Your gas pipe should exit from the bottom of the meter box

 

[denso13]

Could I get a gas fitter to loop the consumer side gas down and then back up to join the external pipe outside of the box?
Would the closeness of a re-routed pipe to the door opening give me any other regulation issues? (e.g. clearance)
Would it be possible to replace the meter box cover without having to touch the supply side?

Yes to 1.
No to 2, should be clipped/fixed appropriately.
Possibly to 3, if you can get the same type/make.

 

[gas112]

This is not classed as an at risk situation . He has jumped the gun so just ignore and go with your cp12 guys . If you did want to run it out the bottom then nothing wrong with being close to door and your mark2 surface box is available at about 50 quid

 

[NeilPalfreyman]

This is not classed as an at risk situation . He has jumped the gun so just ignore and go with your cp12 guys . If you did want to run it out the bottom then nothing wrong with being close to door and your mark2 surface box is available at about 50 quid

Thanks very much for this, gas112.

It's been like it for over ten years with no issues and the box itself is underneath a porch so the risk of water ingress is minimal. I would very much like to ignore it!

But I don't know enough about the regs and what constitutes "at risk" to be certain. I'm not doubting you for a minute (my letting agent is saying I should ignore it, too) but if I'm going to ignore it I need to know what my "defense" is.

Any chance that you could provide more info on your ratianale and/or point me to the appropriate part of the regs/procedure?

Many thanks again, Neil

 

[aveatry]

My mate had a similar issue, his tenant had a gas meter put in and the "engineer" (fitter) condemned the cooker as do not use because it only had an anti tip chain at the top and he said it also needed one at the bottom, the normal gas safety check had not long been done by the usual guy who came back and Un-did the condemned notice.
These smart meter fitters - are they just dragged off the street and given an afternoon fitting course and anything they do not understand they cover their backs by slapping a condemn note on.

 

[gas112]

Thanks very much for this, gas112.

It's been like it for over ten years with no issues and the box itself is underneath a porch so the risk of water ingress is minimal. I would very much like to ignore it!

But I don't know enough about the regs and what constitutes "at risk" to be certain. I'm not doubting you for a minute (my letting agent is saying I should ignore it, too) but if I'm going to ignore it I need to know what my "defense" is.

Any chance that you could provide more info on your ratianale and/or point me to the appropriate part of the regs/procedure?

Many thanks again, Neil

The only time it would be classed as at risk is if the meter or regulator was showing signs of corrosion .
If anything the box would be classed as NCS not to current standard which no longer needs to be reported
This link will allow you to open up the unsafe situations book that lists what is at risk and what is immediately dangerous you will see pipework leaving box like yours is , is not listed at all for either .....Click on free download

IGEM/G/11 Edition 2 - Gas industry unsafe situations procedure with amendments July 2022 and June 2024

IGEM/G/11 Edition 2 - Gas industry unsafe situations procedure

www.igem.org.uk

 

[Deleted member 267285]

These smart meter fitters - are they just dragged off the street and given an afternoon fitting course and anything they do not understand they cover their backs by slapping a condemn note on.

Not necessarily dragged off the street, but some don’t have enough experience and are usually given the basic training, not including appliances

 

[aveatry]

Not necessarily dragged off the street, but some don’t have enough experience and are usually given the basic training, not including appliances

Escorted off the street then

 

[gas112]

Yep their knowledge on the basics is sadly lacking and in many cases frighteningly so

 

[Gasguru]

Gas leaks on/around gas meters are common and the issue is whether they can find their way into the wall cavity and property. Without seeing exactly how the pipe exits the box we can't say for certain what course of action should be taken. Either way it's a bodge job. Best option would be to reroute the pipework correctly and repair the box removing any doubt in the future.

We are guided by this document...

IGEM/G/11 Edition 2 - Gas industry unsafe situations procedure with amendments July 2022 and June 2024

IGEM/G/11 Edition 2 - Gas industry unsafe situations procedure

www.igem.org.uk

See 2.8 in the tables towards the back.

There's no evidence of earth bonding either so you may have a notice regarding that too...see 3.19

 

[aveatry]

Yep their knowledge on the basics is sadly lacking and in many cases frighteningly so

One of the reasons i will never let one of them in my house.

 

[gas112]

Gas leaks on/around gas meters are common and the issue is whether they can find their way into the wall cavity and property. Without seeing exactly how the pipe exits the box we can't say for certain what course of action should be taken. Either way it's a bodge job. Best option would be to reroute the pipework correctly and repair the box removing any doubt in the future.

We are guided by this document...

IGEM/G/11 Edition 2 - Gas industry unsafe situations procedure with amendments July 2022 and June 2024

IGEM/G/11 Edition 2 - Gas industry unsafe situations procedure

www.igem.org.uk

See 2.8 in the tables towards the back.

There's no evidence of earth bonding either so you may have a notice regarding that too...see 3.19

There is a picture you can see the pipe exits through top of the box and not through the back so comments about cavity are meaninglesss in this situation

 

[Gasguru]

We can't tell how butchered that box is...it could have a gaping hole into the cavity. If they're prepared to bodge that much then taking a lump hammer to the box won't worry them

 

[gas112]

We can't tell how butchered that box is...it could have a gaping hole into the cavity. If they're prepared to bodge that much then taking a lump hammer to the box won't worry them

you can see the back off the box it is not butchered or battered it hasnt even been touched the pipe goes straight up and out the top of the box
There is no hole within the box into the property
Its simple its not AR