Before we pay the fella - is this cobblers?

[cozzmic]

If what you say he is not listed on the £orgi web site then I'm afraid it your own fault for using a non registered installer and technically you have encouraged an illegal install. sorry.
But if he is reg'd you do have him by the short and curlys.

 

[Corgigrouch]

Jesus Christ!!!! Some of you have a pretty wierd idea of the law.... No wonder we have a bad reputation and face ever increasing regulation....

On the face of it, the customer has asked for a combi to be fitted by a local plumber.

Since fitting a combi involves tinkering with gas, then it is for the plumber to say if he can work on gas or not, if he holds the realavent corgi tickets, then this part of the arrangement is fine... If the plumber informed the customer that he is not CORGI regd and the customer said "I don't care... just get it fitted" then the problem still lies with the plumber as he is the one breaking the law... ( If your boss sent you out in an untaxed van with bald tyres, then it is down to you to refuse to drive it and it is you who will be nailed if you are caught)

With very few exceptions a band A or B boiler must be fitted. Just how the boiler manufacturer achieves this is down to them, but generally speaking a Band A or B boiler is a condensing boiler.... It is down to the installer to make sure that that the boiler is suitable for the job... If the installer has quoted for a boiler then it must comply with current regulations... He is the expert, the professional, the guy who the customer relies on to advise... It is not down to the customer to constantly check the installer is doing the job right.... If you bought a brand new van, wouldn't you be upset if the police pulled you over a hundred yards down the road and booked you for not having lights and seatbelts fitted?....Especially if you went back to the dealer to complain and their respose was "Well you never asked for them, mate it's down to you to check that it complies with the construction and use regs"

If an installer charges to do a job, then at the very least it must comply with regs and the equipment must be what the customer has been quoted for, and will ultimately pay for... If a non condensing boiler does not comply, the the assumption is that a condensing boiler will be fitted otherwise the selected boiler will not be fit for the purpose

 

[Luther]

Here's the bottom of the boiler. Is that enough detail?

Untitled

• Luther
• 2 Nov 2008
• 1

 

[Luther]

Jesus Christ!!!! Some of you have a pretty wierd idea of the law.... No wonder we have a bad reputation and face ever increasing regulation....

On the face of it, the customer has asked for a combi to be fitted by a local plumber.

Since fitting a combi involves tinkering with gas, then it is for the plumber to say if he can work on gas or not, if he holds the realavent corgi tickets, then this part of the arrangement is fine... If the plumber informed the customer that he is not CORGI regd and the customer said "I don't care... just get it fitted" then the problem still lies with the plumber as he is the one breaking the law... ( If your boss sent you out in an untaxed van with bald tyres, then it is down to you to refuse to drive it and it is you who will be nailed if you are caught)

With very few exceptions a band A or B boiler must be fitted. Just how the boiler manufacturer achieves this is down to them, but generally speaking a Band A or B boiler is a condensing boiler.... It is down to the installer to make sure that that the boiler is suitable for the job... If the installer has quoted for a boiler then it must comply with current regulations... He is the expert, the professional, the guy who the customer relies on to advise... It is not down to the customer to constantly check the installer is doing the job right.... If you bought a brand new van, wouldn't you be upset if the police pulled you over a hundred yards down the road and booked you for not having lights and seatbelts fitted?....Especially if you went back to the dealer to complain and their respose was "Well you never asked for them, mate it's down to you to check that it complies with the construction and use regs"

If an installer charges to do a job, then at the very least it must comply with regs and the equipment must be what the customer has been quoted for, and will ultimately pay for... If a non condensing boiler does not comply, the the assumption is that a condensing boiler will be fitted otherwise the selected boiler will not be fit for the purpose

Thank you, that sums up what I think to be honest. I hear what people are saying about our responsibilities and of course it was daft to just go on a recommend without checking the guy's CORGI first, but to be honest I'm a dunce when it comes to these sort of things and I don't know how the hell I'm supposed to know if he's installing a legally compliant boiler or not.

If he'd said "look, if you're not bothered about building regs I can fit you a nice cheap old style combi for £XXX..." then I'd take full responsibility for employing him on that basis. But that's not what happened - I just asked for a new condensing combi and left it to what I thought was someone who knew what to do.

 

[gremlin16]

15mm gas supply and no condensate pipe

Hang him

 

[gas4you]

Do Halsteads have a different pipe layout to most other manufacturers?

If not it looks as though the filling loop is connected to the HW outlet

 

[Luther]

Thanks gremlin16 and gas4you - didn't understand what either of you said but I guess it's not good from the emoticons!

 

[gas4you]

When you run a hot tap, does the 15mm pipe that the filling loop is connected to get hot?

 

[Luther]

Just tried it - yes the left hand pipe does get hot (at the top, by the boiler above the filling loop - much less warm lower down).

Is that bad, then?

 

[Luther]

Right. I just rang the plumber and was polite!

I said "is this a condensing boiler?" and he said no, it's not a condenser, it's a normal combi but it is 'Band A'. Hmmm.

Told him I checked the boiler database thing online and it says the Halstead Ace High is Band D - and that in any case we specifically asked for and discussed condenser boilers, and I thought it was the law to fit one.

He insists that, while it isn't a condenser, it's band A and it's fine. So, I asked him for the compliance cerftificate and the benchmark document and he flanneled a bit about how they are in his van and he'll drop them round. He's meant to be coming tomorrow evening to check things over anyway, so I said we'll chat about it in detail then and in the meantime, we've stopped his cheque.

All fairly civil so far - no one has shouted or anything! Although I don't think he was pleased about the money. I know it's not nice to have your work questioned but I think it's justified, to be honest.

We've got a CORGI fella coming out first thing tomorrow to give us a second opinion, so that will help us when we talk to the first bloke when he comes over later on.

Thanks for all the advice received in here - it's a tremendous resource, this forum.

 

[Agile]

This is not a condensing boiler and he is not CORGI registered.

The boiler has been fitted without a properly sized gas pipe.

Whilst its neat and tidy its just not the right type of boiler and there are several smaller details about how its been done.

I have to say that he should not get paid anything and shoule remove ( his ) boiler and cap off the pipes ready for a proper CORGI.

Take the registration number of his vehicle and do anything you can to check his name and address.

Call CORGI and see if they want to be involved. I think its dreadful that this guy can carry on doing this work so badly for a long time without CORGI stopping him.

This guy should be pleased to comply with your requirements in return for not being reported to CORGI. But he is not going to be happy to say the least. Its totally his own fault and the cowboys who read this forum should take note!

Tony

 

[Deleted member 105431]

Here here Tony, well said. Although the customer is just as bad in my view, you pay peanuts and all that.

 

[sambotc]

Any chance of getting a picture of the flue terminal position outside?

When he arrives ask to see his corgi card and when he tell's you he's left it at home ask him for this registration number instead.

 

[Luther]

Sorry the pic is sideways, but I'm as useless at PCs as at employing heating engineers. This is the flue outside. The boiler is upstairs in an airing cupboard in the extension at the back of the house.

I take the point about my culpability in employing this fella - lesson learned and all that. But I didn't realise that £1800 was paying peanuts! How much should we have expected to pay to have a new (proper) boiler installed?

Untitled

• Luther
• 2 Nov 2008
• 1

 

[Trundles Tricks]

1) The left hand 15mm pipe on a Halstead Ace High is the cold inlet and the filling loop is fitted to the right pipes.

2) It isn't clear if a 22mm Gas supply is just out of shot in which case it could well be OK.

3) The thought that a non registered plumber working on gas actually checked the gas working pressures after installation might well be stretching credulity a touch too far.