Best way to add sockets/switches to these outlets. See images.

[Hobobanobo]

Hi.

You guys are awesome. I now have light. But thats allowed me to see what comes next.
I meed more sockets. Here are the sockets i have. Question is. Can I just spur these.

The dryer 20amp switch id like to swap for a twin over counter 13amp. And then spur a second off under counter for a freestanding american fridge (where door is currently) and the dryer. Is this safe or too many amps for a twin 13amp.
All on a 32amp breaker.

The hanging twin by the range (which will have units either side. I need to work out how to get a filter extractor wired into this. Maybe spur up to a hard wired plate by ceiling? Thinner wire?

The socket near the tools i need another twin in the corner which will house a microwave on a shelf.i assume a spur for this down and behind skirting is fine? Or microwave dodgy on spur?

As a bonus. If anyone can tell me why the 20amp switch labelled washing mashine by the twin is not only spurred but also on a 2 wire connection to the main circuit. Id love to know. Seems overkill?

Thoughts? Happy to provide better images. When on my pc.
Work starts tomorrow morning...come hell or high water.

 

[Murdochcat]

Work by who ?

 

[Hobobanobo]

Work by who ?

Me

 

[sparkwright]

You don't HAVE to spur each time.

You could EXTEND the ring, meaning each new socket will have two cables and would be directly on the ring.

This would make future additions so much easier.

Can't explain what's go on with the washing machine switch. Are you sure it's really like that?

Does one breaker of fuse turn off all of that lot?
I only ask in case someone has made a wiring mistake, and wired it across two circuits - which wouldn't be good.

 

[Hobobanobo]

You don't HAVE to spur each time.

You could EXTEND the ring, meaning each new socket will have two cables and would be directly on the ring.

This would make future additions so much easier.

Can't explain what's go on with the washing machine switch. Are you sure it's really like that?

Does one breaker of fuse turn off all of that lot?
I only ask in case someone has made a wiring mistake, and wired it across two circuits - which wouldn't be good.

Im going to check this later. Labels on consumer unit not clear.

Yeah the 20amp washer spur is also wired to circuit.. odd.

And if I add the extra sockets to the circuit rather than spur. Is it just a case of having two wires down to the new socket. Or do I remove one cable from first, then run that to new socket. Then another from there back to original.
I assume both ok.
I was just concerned about the dryer and fridge on one paired socket with no isolation switch. Ive heard mixed things on the isolation switches.

 

[ericmark]

1) If buried cables, there are special routes.
2) All installations should be tested. The testers for doing a ring final cost around £500 but can rent for around £70 a week, but plug in testers for a 20 amp or less circuit cost around £40 which is why DIY often fused spurs are more cost-effective.
3) Resistive heated tumble driers are over 14 kg so not considered as portable, and they use over 2 kW for an extended time, so really they need a dedicated circuit, or at least supplied near the centre of the ring final.

The appendix 15 says

The load current in any part of the circuit should be unlikely to exceed for long periods the current-carrying capacity of the cable (Regulation 433.1.5 refers). This can generally be achieved by:
(i) locating socket-outlets to provide reasonable sharing of the load around the ring
(ii) not supplying immersion heaters, comprehensive electric space heating or loads of a similar profile frog the ring circuit
(iii) connecting cookers, ovens and hobs with a rated power exceeding 2 kW on their own dedicated radial circuit
(iv) taking account of the total floor area being served. (Historically, limit of 100 m² has been adopted.)

In real terms, items where the load over 2 kW is short, are not a problem, a dishwasher may not be portable, but it does not contain much water, so the heater is on for a very short time, same with a washing machine without a tumble drying function. But unless a heat pump, then tumble dryers are using high power for an extended time, same as an immersion heater.

Any spur from a 32 amp supply using 2.5 mm² cable needs the current limiting by having it feed one BS 1363 device, be it a socket either single or double, or a FCU, (fused connection unit) once it has gone through a FCU then limited to 13 amp so you can have as many sockets as you like.

The loop impedance or prospective short circuit current needs to be low or high enough for the protective device to work, and the permitted volt drop not exceeded. The 1.38 Ω required for a ring final can't be measured with a cheap plug in socket tester with loop, they only go down to 1.8 Ω a 13 amp fuse limit is 2.42 Ω so will work with a fused spur.

 

[sparkwright]

Isolation switches, or sockets in nearby cupboards, make isolating appliances so much easier.

To extend a ring, from your existing socket with two existing cables, you can run two new cables.

At that original socket, you would join one old cable with one new cable with connectors or wagos, and tuck them away in the back box. You would then connect the remaining old cable to the remaining new cable to the socket itself.

That way, every socket has two cables connected to it.

 

[Hobobanobo]

Isolation switches, or sockets in nearby cupboards, make isolating appliances so much easier.

To extend a ring, from your existing socket with two existing cables, you can run two new cables.

At that original socket, you would join one old cable with one new cable with connectors or wagos, and tuck them away in the back box. You would then connect the remaining old cable to the remaining new cable to the socket itself.

That way, every socket has two cables connected to it.

Great I shall probably extend it to two twin sockets instead if a switch and spur. (but as ericmark says above. Am I pushing my luck with a dryer and fridge on this extended circuit twin socket without a 20amp isolation) And its not very helpful to anyone using this in the future who preferes them Isolated.
Id rather not FCU it.
Doesnt leave me much choice does it. Hmm. Trying to think of a way to have a twin above counter with an unfused switch by it running to a twin below for fridge and dryer.

 

[Hobobanobo]

1) If buried cables, there are special routes.
2) All installations should be tested. The testers for doing a ring final cost around £500 but can rent for around £70 a week, but plug in testers for a 20 amp or less circuit cost around £40 which is why DIY often fused spurs are more cost-effective.
3) Resistive heated tumble driers are over 14 kg so not considered as portable, and they use over 2 kW for an extended time, so really they need a dedicated circuit, or at least supplied near the centre of the ring final.

The appendix 15 says
In real terms, items where the load over 2 kW is short, are not a problem, a dishwasher may not be portable, but it does not contain much water, so the heater is on for a very short time, same with a washing machine without a tumble drying function. But unless a heat pump, then tumble dryers are using high power for an extended time, same as an immersion heater.

Any spur from a 32 amp supply using 2.5 mm² cable needs the current limiting by having it feed one BS 1363 device, be it a socket either single or double, or a FCU, (fused connection unit) once it has gone through a FCU then limited to 13 amp so you can have as many sockets as you like.

The loop impedance or prospective short circuit current needs to be low or high enough for the protective device to work, and the permitted volt drop not exceeded. The 1.38 Ω required for a ring final can't be measured with a cheap plug in socket tester with loop, they only go down to 1.8 Ω a 13 amp fuse limit is 2.42 Ω so will work with a fused spur.

Ok thanks. Ill mull this over, more to think about. So spurs a lot more limiting than looping in. I need to look at microwave load too now.

 

[sparkwright]

You need a twin and two switches above the counter.
One switch will control one single socket below.
The other switch will control another single socket below.
That way, you can isolate the dryer, and leave the fridge working.

 

[sparkwright]

With a 'grid' system, you can have two 20 amp switches on a single size plate.

 

[Hobobanobo]

You need a twin and two switches above the counter.
One switch will control one single socket below.
The other switch will control another single socket below.
That way, you can isolate the dryer, and leave the fridge working.

Shame as its messy but perhaps only way to avoid overload?

And you were right. The washer twin switch wasnt quite as i expected.
Its a single wire up to circuit from each. With a spur to washer plug under counter from switch.

Is there a way to mirror this where my dryer switch is but add a second switch to it.

I will look into a grid system now...

 

[sparkwright]

Mind you, you might need a deeper back box...

 

[Hobobanobo]

Need a glass of wine. Promised the mrs id have this sorted tomorrow haha
So I love the idea of grid twin switch plate. Alongside a twin socket.
Can i research it in time? likely not.

In your expert opinion. Whats the likely scenario of having a looped in pair of twin sockets. 2 above 2 below. And the two below or two singles below, having issues with an american fridge and vented dryer. I mean. Ive seen worse. Dryer on an hour or two a day.
Chance it? Whats at risk? The 32amp breaker or the wire?

 

[Hobobanobo]

Mind you, you might need a deeper back box...

35mm back box with wagos?
I just need to figure out how this would connect to a twin socket and then off to the two under counter sockets. I suppose i then want a 35mm twin socket above but its just all so messy.
Id love to scrap it all and go looped sockets only