BMW 1 series on Ice
- Thread starter Hysteresis
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Is this turning into a stealth I've got loadsa f**king money thread now?
LOL, He started it. This is what I have to put up with in the snow
I think a lot of you guys have missed the point. As an ex BMW senior technician and current senior chassis engineer for a major manufactuer I feel I am qualified to comment.
I do not believe the issue is with the car or the driver going from FWD to RWD. It's more likely understanding the systems used. ASC + T or even DSC and ABS for that matter are not suitable for snow and ice. Whether FWD or RWD these syatems are not really designed to cope in such conditions, more like mud, gravel and the wet.
Best bet is to turn them off ( assuming it's a manual gearbox) and learn from there. Being RWD the characteristics are easier to handle than FWD.
Unfortunately, far too much emphasis is placed on these systems which are designed to help when in the doo doo rather than enable you to drive it.
The coments on tyre size and tread patterns are very valid but the reality is in the UK we don't experience these conditions too often to justify a change.
My advice would be to work from home or at least wait a few hours until the roads have cleared up.
I do not believe the issue is with the car or the driver going from FWD to RWD. It's more likely understanding the systems used. ASC + T or even DSC and ABS for that matter are not suitable for snow and ice. Whether FWD or RWD these syatems are not really designed to cope in such conditions, more like mud, gravel and the wet.
Best bet is to turn them off ( assuming it's a manual gearbox) and learn from there. Being RWD the characteristics are easier to handle than FWD.
Unfortunately, far too much emphasis is placed on these systems which are designed to help when in the doo doo rather than enable you to drive it.
The coments on tyre size and tread patterns are very valid but the reality is in the UK we don't experience these conditions too often to justify a change.
My advice would be to work from home or at least wait a few hours until the roads have cleared up.
Thats a great advert for BMW!
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errrrrrrrrrrr. No. Mr Mercurys twin. I have licences to test to what is known to the initiated as V Max, which in my case is around 200 mph. I also hold licences for bikes and HGV's.
It's not a bad advert for BMW at all. The facts are simple and basic physics.
It doesnt matter what car or what supposed safety system it has. On ice and snow you cannot escape the fact that the mass will take the path of least resistance in terms of direction.
Naturaly being in Devon it's not expected that you'd understand if you tried this in a tractor, which incidently suffer from the same issues!
It's not a bad advert for BMW at all. The facts are simple and basic physics.
It doesnt matter what car or what supposed safety system it has. On ice and snow you cannot escape the fact that the mass will take the path of least resistance in terms of direction.
Naturaly being in Devon it's not expected that you'd understand if you tried this in a tractor, which incidently suffer from the same issues!
You should see the amount of BMWs that end up in the trees on the side of the A38 after an icy spell! Another great advert for BMWs.
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You should see the amount of BMWs that end up in the trees on the side of the A38 after an icy spell! Another great advert for BMWs.
or their poor drivers.
The large number of BMWs crashed at the side of the road may not be entirely because they're driven badly.
It could simply be that there are so many of them on the roads nowadays that they're more likely to feature prominently in the accident statistics.
It could simply be that there are so many of them on the roads nowadays that they're more likely to feature prominently in the accident statistics.
I agree with you.
I have been driving for 35 years accident free and hold both HGV and PSV class 1 driving licences,I am a qualified RTITB HGV driving assessor and driver trainer.
I spent 14 hours yesterday attempting to drive my father's new BMW 1 series
back from South Wales to the East Midlands.
I have driven all sorts of vehicles in all types of weather but the 14 hours in that car (sledge!) were the most frustrating,dangerous and quite frankly terrifying hours I have ever spent behind the wheel of any vehicle.
At the slightest incline the rear wheels spin and even on a moderate camber the rear end slides toward the kerb.
At one point I had to wait in line with the Wagons to be towed up a moderate incline while all the other cars sailed past with no problem.
It goes without saying that I will be encouraging dad to "get rid" as soon as possible.I certainly wont be driving it again other than a warm dry day in July and only then with caution!
I have been driving for 35 years accident free and hold both HGV and PSV class 1 driving licences,I am a qualified RTITB HGV driving assessor and driver trainer.
I spent 14 hours yesterday attempting to drive my father's new BMW 1 series
back from South Wales to the East Midlands.
I have driven all sorts of vehicles in all types of weather but the 14 hours in that car (sledge!) were the most frustrating,dangerous and quite frankly terrifying hours I have ever spent behind the wheel of any vehicle.
At the slightest incline the rear wheels spin and even on a moderate camber the rear end slides toward the kerb.
At one point I had to wait in line with the Wagons to be towed up a moderate incline while all the other cars sailed past with no problem.
It goes without saying that I will be encouraging dad to "get rid" as soon as possible.I certainly wont be driving it again other than a warm dry day in July and only then with caution!
It's significant that the OP's son is coming from a Passat to a BMW. The Passat has front wheel drive with the weight of the engine over the wheels and if it's a diesel, a heavier engine than the petrol version. The BMW has wide tyres making for very poor ground pressure and little weight over the rear wheels combined with a lot of power and probably quite a peaky engine too. My own Passat diesel is pretty good in snow despite the summer tyres. I've no doubt it would be excellent with winter tyres, which would have a narrower tread and softer rubber with more sipes in the treads. My wife has a Citroen C1 diesel, which is excellent in snow thanks to the narrow tyres and heavyish diesel engine over the driving wheels.
The traction control device needs to be turned off in snow and the driver needs to learn to moderate the throttle and select a high gear to prevent wheelspin. With traction control engaged the car won't go up a slope any better; the TC will just sense the wheels spinning and will apply the brakes, eventually stalling the car. I have just tried climbing a gentle slope with and without the TC engaged and with TC the car just stopped so I reversed back and without TC I got up, in third gear and almost at tickover. (Another reason why diesels are better in snow)
The traction control device needs to be turned off in snow and the driver needs to learn to moderate the throttle and select a high gear to prevent wheelspin. With traction control engaged the car won't go up a slope any better; the TC will just sense the wheels spinning and will apply the brakes, eventually stalling the car. I have just tried climbing a gentle slope with and without the TC engaged and with TC the car just stopped so I reversed back and without TC I got up, in third gear and almost at tickover. (Another reason why diesels are better in snow)
RigidRaider is entirely correct. To get good grip in snow(*) and ice you need a lot of pressure put down onto the road. Wider tyres with softer compound will be great in the dry and wet but in snow and ice they are not as good. Going RWD makes the situation worse as you no longer have the heavy engine over the driving wheels.
Tyre socks or snow chains work very well but not very convenient if you are going from snow/ice covered roads to cleared roads as you need to keep taking them off. If you are going to be driving for some time in these conditions then best to get a set of steel narrow wheels and fit some winter tyres or even just summer tyres. The reduced width will help a lot and you also wont worry about scratching the rims if you do fit some tyre chains.
Keep a tun of cat litter mixed with dishwasher salt in the boot and put some of that down if there is a particular patch that is proving difficult to get past.
(*) Driving on snow you can also go the other route of increasing the surface area considerably. People who drive on loose snow a lot have tyres with very low pressures.
The previous poster advised turning off traction control. I would advise keeping it turned on but turn it off briefly if you have a problem getting up a hill. Leaving it on may still save you from spinning out at a corner. I had a 3 series BMW with ASC+T and if it got stuck in snow the wheels would still turn slowly (about idle speed in 1st).
Tyre socks or snow chains work very well but not very convenient if you are going from snow/ice covered roads to cleared roads as you need to keep taking them off. If you are going to be driving for some time in these conditions then best to get a set of steel narrow wheels and fit some winter tyres or even just summer tyres. The reduced width will help a lot and you also wont worry about scratching the rims if you do fit some tyre chains.
Keep a tun of cat litter mixed with dishwasher salt in the boot and put some of that down if there is a particular patch that is proving difficult to get past.
(*) Driving on snow you can also go the other route of increasing the surface area considerably. People who drive on loose snow a lot have tyres with very low pressures.
The previous poster advised turning off traction control. I would advise keeping it turned on but turn it off briefly if you have a problem getting up a hill. Leaving it on may still save you from spinning out at a corner. I had a 3 series BMW with ASC+T and if it got stuck in snow the wheels would still turn slowly (about idle speed in 1st).
ASC&T is the worst thing to have on snow and ice. Best advice is to turn it off. I do this with my 323 as last year I was unwise and kept it switched on. The back end just span out whilst I was travelling in a straight line. My neighbour's 3 series did the same and unfortunately span in to the path of an oncoming car and wrote it off. Mine has wide wheels but in the winter I take them off and put the original 15" alloys back on which are narrower. Winter tyres greatly improve the handling as well and almost totally overcome wheel spin and slide on snow and ice.
I have to say, I'm more of a RWD fan as I've had a few in my time. I prefer the handling and find it easier to recover from a spin if it happens. Better pull away as well rather than wheel spinning on quick pull away.
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I have followed all of these answer on BMW's and the difficulty ALL cars have in the Ice nad Snow. I now have a Jaguar XF, and this car is also absolutely useless in the Ice and snow. A neighbour who also has an XF and another with a BMW happened to have to garage our cars for 12 days during the last spell of bad weather. ALL other neighbours with cars such as AUdi and Fords did not experience a total loss of mobility. Even Taxi's of the SKODA variety had no problems getting going without any problems what so ever. Whilst I watched with envy as I tried to get my XF re-garaged.
No wise cracks please about 'Well Buy a Skoda' If I new then what I know now I would definitely would not buy a Jaguar XF.
The point of this reply is How can the likes of Skoda and Audi and Ford design cars which cope with these conditions whilst BMW and Jaguar can't. And this is nothing to do with RWD or FWD or DSC or Traction Control. It is just that Jaguar and BMW seem not to be able to design such basic requirements. Rmember in identical conditions, Skoda are OK, Jaguar/BMW are S**t
Anyone want to buy a Jaguar XF with 2500 miles on the clock at £6000 below the new price?
No wise cracks please about 'Well Buy a Skoda' If I new then what I know now I would definitely would not buy a Jaguar XF.
The point of this reply is How can the likes of Skoda and Audi and Ford design cars which cope with these conditions whilst BMW and Jaguar can't. And this is nothing to do with RWD or FWD or DSC or Traction Control. It is just that Jaguar and BMW seem not to be able to design such basic requirements. Rmember in identical conditions, Skoda are OK, Jaguar/BMW are S**t
Anyone want to buy a Jaguar XF with 2500 miles on the clock at £6000 below the new price?
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