BMW 1 series on Ice

The Jag XF is RWD?
Thats your problem as you have a lot less weight over the rear wheels and wide tyres so you are immediately at a disadvantage over FWD cars.

If you have space then buy a set of steel rims and winter tyres as a packages from somewhere like mytyres.co.uk and fit them to the car when the temperature drops below about 5C and you will find that you suddenly have more grip than FWD cars.
 
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No Razor, That Jaguar was an S-Type, the present one is an XF,
The S-type was fine, but the XF is S**t in Ice and Snow
I assume you don't want the XF at a discount of £6000 then !!!!!!!!
 
Hi again gblades.
I will perue that option if I can't get some guy to buy this XF. I did try that approach a month ago but winter tyres were simply not available in the UK as the demand had stripped supply.
However I did not try mytyres, and thanks for the lead which I certainly will follow up.
 
BMW 1 series fail :LOL:

bmwtyrechainswrongwheels.jpg
 
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Hi gblades,
I tried mytyres several times and they just can't supply wheels and tyres for the XF - Still searching !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Interesting thread. I'm very surprised at the number of people recommending turning off traction control and / or other electronic aids. Frankly, if they're no use on ice, then I'm not sure what they're doing there!

My wife's Nissan X-Trail is brillant in snow and ice. It's a 4x4 but it doesn't have diff locks. It uses its traction control to gently apply the brake to the spinning wheel - thereby forcing the other wheel on that axle to turn. And it does so with spectacular success! The idea that it would apply both brakes is somewhat bizarre - that would, of course, give no benefit whatsoever. I know that many cars' systems will close the throttle a bit or reduce power output in some other way before they start using the brakes to intervene but either way, I find it works very well in the snow. The Electronic Stability Control also works in "loss of control" situations in snow or on ice (e.g. when I boot it half way through a bend, the back end steps out and then the ESC intervenes to spoil my fun)!

I also thought it odd that people think rear wheel drive cars ought to be worse than FWD in snow when it comes to traction - as the main reason all powerful cars have always tended to be RWD is precisely because they CAN'T put their power down adequately through the front wheels?

Lastly, I wonder whether the poor performance of many more powerful modern vehicles on slippy stuff is partly down to their power and torque? As a kid I had very low powered cars (with skinny tyres) and didn't seem to have half so much trouble. These days I have the use of a company diesel MPV which is utterly useless on snow and ice. It weighs 2 tonnes, drives the front wheels through an open diff, and is mapped such that it has virtually no torque below about 1500 revs (in fact it's surprisingly easy to stall) but as soon as it hits 1500, it has MASSES of torque and just lights up its front tyres (often in the wet, never mind snow)!
 
The X-Trail is going to be a lot better. Its 4wd for a start so if a wheel starts slipping it will put the brakes on so traction goes to the other wheel on the axle but the other diff is still operating normally. So you get at least double the traction even without having diff lock or LSD. If you have more off road type tyres they will also be a lot better in teh snow than regular road tyres and the bigger tread gaps allow a ridge of snow to get in and gives something for the tyre tread to grip against.
I dont entirely agree with turning off traction control in the snow. In my experience in a BMW 3 series (E36) it does help as one wheel can get on an icy patch and without traction control you wont get the torque swapped to the opposite side. Turning off ABS to help with braking so you lock the wheels and get a ridge of snow infront of the tyres to help braking is a much better idea but often requires pulling fuses.

RWD normally works better in perfornance cars for a couple of reasons. First is during corning you have a lot of force on the tyre pushing it towards the outside of the corner so you dont need to have so much torque applied to start making them slide. Having RWD means you can accelerate out of a corner quicker (long corner dont have so much of a benefit).
The second reason is due to torque steer. When you have power going through the steering wheels it puts them under load and makes the steering much heavier. So the end result is very hard steering while cornering or a large amount of power steering assistance which reduces the feel through the steering wheel.

Your old cars were good because they had skinny tyres. Powerfull cars need more grip on the road and in order to do this the best approach is softer tyre compound and lower contact pressure which means wider wheels. This lower contact pressure causes the tyres not to bite into the snow and the wider wheels make it much more difficult to push snow and slush to the side.
The torque and power of the engine will have an impact but most people in this thread are talking about the complete inability to get the car moving even while the engine is idling. I am sure if BMW drivers were able to drive in the snow but had to keep the revs very low they would still consider it a big improvement :p
 
I talked to a Jaguar tech guy today about the problem of getting going in the snow with a Jaguar XF. He reckoned that a solution to the problem is to select the Jaguar XF into Winter Mode, and then apply three quarter throttle and the car will apply drive to alternate drive wheels and the car will effectively 'Walk' out of the Snow / Ice. I doubt it will work myself as I recall I was in Winter mode when I was stuck in snow and all that happened was that One rear wheel just kept spinning with no traction what so ever. But I bow to superior knowledge and I will try the procedure when we next get a dump of snow. I think I will be struggling to get going again.
Thought I would share the advice to the readers of this thread and maybe get some feedback.
 
Interesting thread. I'm very surprised at the number of people recommending turning off traction control and / or other electronic aids. Frankly, if they're no use on ice, then I'm not sure what they're doing there!

Traction control is not just about slippery weather conditions. the switching off of the BMW system is more because it's a basic system that does what it says on the tin. But fails when the conditions get really slippery. More modern traction control will adjust firmness independantly to each spring and put power to the right wheels when needed. Therefore when you go hacking it round a corner too fast, the springs adjust, the power gets put where needed and you can get out of a sticky situation where as a car without would have spun off the road and in to a tree.
 
They adjust the spring rate????!!!!! Surely not?

I'm familiar with systems that take over control of the throttle and can individually brake each wheel as necessary. I guess the smartest ones (if the car has a "sport" setting for ist dampers) could adjust the damper stiffnesses on each corner, but I can't for the life of me think how they'd manage to alter the spring rates!
 
They adjust the spring rate????!!!!! Surely not?

I'm familiar with systems that take over control of the throttle and can individually brake each wheel as necessary. I guess the smartest ones (if the car has a "sport" setting for ist dampers) could adjust the damper stiffnesses on each corner, but I can't for the life of me think how they'd manage to alter the spring rates!

Sorry, meant dampers. Was trying to multi task there and failed again, lol.
 
The X-Trail is going to be a lot better. Its 4wd for a start so if a wheel starts slipping it will put the brakes on so traction goes to the other wheel on the axle but the other diff is still operating normally. So you get at least double the traction even without having diff lock or LSD. If you have more off road type tyres they will also be a lot better in teh snow than regular road tyres and the bigger tread gaps allow a ridge of snow to get in and gives something for the tyre tread to grip against.

Yes, but it still does it in 2WD too! I understand that it would obviously be better for driving both axles, but it works on the same principle in 2WD as well (obviously just with the front axle)! It does have "Mud & snow" tyres on it but you can certainly tell when it's doing its "traction control" thing - when the little yellow light comes on, you can feel it shuffling torque between each wheel as it juggles the brakes to get the best grip.


RWD normally works better in perfornance cars for a couple of reasons. First is during corning you have a lot of force on the tyre pushing it towards the outside of the corner so you dont need to have so much torque applied to start making them slide. Having RWD means you can accelerate out of a corner quicker (long corner dont have so much of a benefit).
The second reason is due to torque steer. When you have power going through the steering wheels it puts them under load and makes the steering much heavier. So the end result is very hard steering while cornering or a large amount of power steering assistance which reduces the feel through the steering wheel.

Yes, I take your points, but the key problem (traction-wise) is that weight naturally transfers on to the back axle as you accelerate (which is why it's generally easier to spin the wheels on a front wheel drive car than a RWD in ordinary conditions. That said, I accept that there won't BE much acceleration on snow, so maybe the heavier initial nose weight outweighs (if you'll excuse the pun!) the loss of grip due to transfer to the back?
 
:LOL:

I don't know the specifics of that model but sometimes there is not enough clearance to fit those type of chains on the rear. I suppose fitting them to the front is better than not at all.
 
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